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2 Navy Airmen and an Object That ‘Accelerated Like Nothing I’ve Ever Seen’
Some bloody alien space tourists again.


Our own space tourists will jump up and down very soon.

Blue Origin has released new footage recorded from inside its space capsule during a recent test flight.

The New Shepard suborbital spacecraft, which is being designed with space tourism in mind, blasted off from the company's West Texas launch site on Tuesday

from the article

Quote:Then, Commander Fravor looked down to the sea. 
It was calm that day, 
but the waves were breaking over something that was just below the surface. 
Whatever it was, it was big enough to cause the sea to churn.

Hovering 50 feet above the churn was an aircraft of some kind — whitish — 
that was around 40 feet long and oval in shape.

The mother ship is just under the surface of the water.
If it isn't a mother ship and an independently flying 40 foot long probe,
then the criteria goes to some other kind of phenomena,
ball lightining type phenomena. 

the smaller 40 foot object,
was "erratically jumping around" over the water surface,
where the larger object was churning the waves from under water.

Quote:Imagine a material as flexible and lightweight as foil that becomes stiff and hard enough to stop a bullet on impact.

[Image: roswell-ufo-crash_newspaper+aluminum.jpg] 1947 Roswell, NM

Process to transition two-layer graphene into diamond-hard material on impact discovered
December 18, 2017

[Image: processtotra.jpg]
By applying pressure at the nanoscale with an indenter to two layers of graphene, each one-atom thick, CUNY researchers transformed the honeycombed graphene into a diamond-like material at room temperature.  Credit: Ella Maru Studio

Imagine a material as flexible and lightweight as foil that becomes stiff and hard enough to stop a bullet on impact. In a newly published paper in Nature Nanotechnology, researchers across The City University of New York (CUNY) describe a process for creating diamene: flexible, layered sheets of graphene that temporarily become harder than diamond and impenetrable upon impact.

Scientists at the Advanced Science Research Center (ASRC) at the Graduate Center, CUNY, worked to theorize and test how two layers of graphene—each one-atom thick—could be made to transform into a diamond-like material upon impact at room temperature. The team also found the moment of conversion resulted in a sudden reduction of electric current, suggesting diamene could have interesting electronic and spintronic properties. The new findings will likely have applications in developing wear-resistant protective coatings and ultra-light bullet-proof films.
"This is the thinnest film with the stiffness and hardness of diamond ever created," said Elisa Riedo, professor of physics at the ASRC and the project's lead researcher. "Previously, when we tested graphite or a single atomic layer of graphene, we would apply pressure and feel a very soft film. But when the graphite film was exactly two-layers thick, all of a sudden we realized that the material under pressure was becoming extremely hard and as stiff, or stiffer, than bulk diamond."
Angelo Bongiorno, associate professor of chemistry at CUNY College of Staten Island and part of the research team, developed the theory for creating diamene. He and his colleagues used atomistic computer simulations to model potential outcomes when pressurizing two honeycomb layers of graphene aligned in different configurations. Riedo and other team members then used an atomic force microscope to apply localized pressure to two-layer graphene on silicon carbide substrates and found perfect agreement with the calculations. Experiments and theory both show that this graphite-diamond transition does not occur for more than two layers or for a single graphene layer.
"Graphite and diamonds are both made entirely of carbon, but the atoms are arranged differently in each material, giving them distinct properties such as hardness, flexibility and electrical conduction," Bongiorno said. "Our new technique allows us to manipulate graphite so that it can take on the beneficial properties of a diamond under specific conditions."
The research team's successful work opens up possibilities for investigating graphite-to-diamond phase transition in two-dimensional materials, according to the paper. Future research could explore methods for stabilizing the transition and allow for further applications for the resulting materials.
[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: New form of carbon discovered that is harder than diamond but flexible as rubber
More information: Yang Gao et al, Ultrahard carbon film from epitaxial two-layer graphene, Nature Nanotechnology (2017). DOI: 10.1038/s41565-017-0023-9

Journal reference: Nature Nanotechnology [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: CUNY Advanced Science Research Center

Read more at:

That diamene material is a superb advancement in modern high technology.
Also goes to show what alien interstellar craft exterior materials technology may be like.
Excellent article, eye opening.

by the ways, this recent alien presence recurrence made the mainstream news tonite.
They were showing more recent military footage of UFO's.

With the video seen here, so timely,
and the elongated Ouma-kahuna asteroid swinging by,
this is a different approach by the military in the media.
Disclosure comes closer,
as global power brokers prepare for a future of distraction politics,
to confuse the global populations that may starve in a world of rapid decline. 
The alien threat will emerge as a new economic venue for the globalists eventually.
A whole lot of weapons technology will be produced for the military space forces,
is what I foresee.

Aliens are passing through all the time is the likely scenario.
I don't think they are too interested in overt domination.
That would have been easier for them even just 50 years ago.
Something else is at play in all that.

This sudden shift by the military to release potential alien craft videos,
even into the mainstream news, 
with a positive spin as to being true,
is a new direction of attitude entirely.
They want massive funding for space weapons technology.
That air force pilot is now telling his story on mainsteam news pundit shows.
Today he was on CNN,
and that fucking CNN idiot Sciutto interrupted the pilot at a crucial moment of the story,
and the pilot never got back to it.

The pilot will tell his full story supposedly ... on FOX ... tomorrow -- Tucker Carlson show.
I've seen a preview of this story on Fox
and it looks like it's going to get the usual fake news treatment.

Alan Hynek said that "Ridicule is NOT part of the scientific process"
when studying UFO reports, and is to be expected when draining the swamp.
more wonder materials materializes...
Quote:Si said this effect is huge, even by the standard of strongly correlated electron systems, and the work points to a larger principle.

'Weyl-Kondo semimetal': Physicists discover new type of quantum material

December 19, 2017, Rice University

[Image: 7-physicistsdi.jpg]
Rice University physicists (from left) Hsin-Hua Lai, Qimiao Si and Sarah Grefe have made predictions that could help experimental physicists create the first “Weyl-Kondo semimetal.” Credit: Jeff Fitlow/Rice University

U.S. and European physicists searching for an explanation for high-temperature superconductivity were surprised when their theoretical model pointed to the existence of a never-before-seen material in a different realm of physics: topological quantum materials.

In a new study due this week in the Early Edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS), Rice University theoretical physicist Qimiao Si and colleagues at the Rice Center for Quantum Materials in Houston and the Vienna University of Technology in Austria make predictions that could help experimental physicists create what the authors have coined a "Weyl-Kondo semimetal," a quantum material with an assorted collection of properties seen in disparate materials like topological insulators, heavy fermion metals and high-temperature superconductors.

All these materials fall under the heading of "quantum materials," ceramics, layered composites and other materials whose electromagnetic behavior cannot be explained by classical physics. In the words of noted science writer Philip Ball, quantum materials are those in which "the quantum aspects assert themselves tenaciously, and the only way to fully understand how the material behaves is to keep the quantum in view."

These quirky behaviors arise only at very cold temperatures, where they cannot be masked by the overwhelming forces of thermal energy. The most celebrated quantum materials are the high-temperature superconductors discovered in the 1980s, so named for their ability to conduct electrical current without resistance at temperatures well above those of traditional superconductors. Another classic example is the heavy fermion materials discovered in the late 1970s. In these, electrons appear to be effectively hundreds of times more massive than normal and, equally unusual, the effective electron mass seems to vary strongly as temperature changes.

A generation of theoretical physicists dedicated their careers to explaining the workings of quantum materials. Si's work focuses on the collective behavior that emerges in electronic materials undergoing transformation from one quantum state to another. It is near such points of transformation, or "quantum critical points," that phenomena like high-temperature superconductivity occur.

In 2001, Si and colleagues offered a new theory that explained how electronic fluctuations between two entirely different quantum states give rise to such behaviors at quantum critical points. The theory has allowed Si and colleagues to make a host of predictions about the quantum behavior that will arise in particular types of material as the materials are cooled to the quantum critical point. In 2014, Si was tapped to lead the Rice Center for Quantum Materials (RCQM), a universitywide effort that draws upon the work in more than a dozen Rice groups across the schools of Natural Sciences and Engineering.
"We have been absolutely fascinated by strongly correlated materials," Si said of his own group. "Collective behavior such as quantum criticality and high-temperature superconductivity have always been the center of our attention.

"Over the past two years, several experimental groups have reported nontrivial topology in solid-state conducting materials, but it's an open question whether there are conducting states that have nontrivial topology and are, at the same time, strongly interacting. No such materials have been realized, but there's a lot of interest in looking for them."
In the PNAS study, Si said he and postdoctoral fellow Hsin-Hua Lai and graduate student Sarah Grefe were working with a set of models to examine questions related to quantum criticality and high-temperature superconductors.
"We really just stumbled upon a model in which, suddenly, we found that the mass had gone from like 1,000 times the mass of an electron to zero," Lai said. A signature characteristic of "Weyl fermions," elusive quantum particles first proposed by Hermann Weyl more than 80 years ago, is that they have zero mass.

Experimentalists have only recently provided evidence for the existence of solid-state conducting materials that qualify as hosting Weyl fermions. These materials share some of the characteristics of topological insulators, a type of quantum material that gained international attention following the awarding of the 2016 Nobel Prize in Physics, but are quite distinct in other ways. Traditionally, topological materials have only been defined in insulators, and electricity would flow only on the materials' surface and not through the bulk. The topological conductors, however, carry electricity in the bulk, thanks to the Weyl fermions.
"These topological conductors can be described within the textbook framework of independent electrons," Grefe said. "The central question, as challenging as it is fascinating, is this: What happens when the electron correlations are strong?"
In examining their work more closely, Si, Lai and Grefe demonstrated that their zero-mass fermions are intimately tied to both strong electron correlations and nontrivial topology.

"We quickly realized that these are Weyl fermions that originate from a quintessential strong-correlation physics called the Kondo effect," Grefe said. "We therefore dubbed this state a Weyl-Kondo semimetal."
The Kondo effect captures how a band of electrons, which are so strongly correlated with each other that they act as localized spins, behave in a background of conduction electrons.

Together with study co-author Silke Paschen, an experimental physicist at Vienna University of Technology who was spending six months at RCQM as a visiting professor when the discovery was made, Si, Lai and Grefe sought to identify the unique experimental signatures of the Weyl-Kondo semimetal.

"We found that the Kondo effect makes the Weyl fermions move with a velocity that differs by several orders of magnitude from the noninteracting case," Lai said. "This allowed us to predict that the electron correlations will enhance a particular quantity in the temperature dependence of the specific heat by a mind-boggling factor of a billion."

Si said this effect is huge, even by the standard of strongly correlated electron systems, and the work points to a larger principle.

"The Kondo effect in these kinds of materials occurs in the vicinity of magnetic order," Si said. "Our previous work has shown that high-temperature superconductivity tends to develop in systems on the verge of magnetic order, and this study suggests that some strongly correlated topological states develop there as well.
"This may well represent a design principle that will guide the search for a wide variety of strongly correlated topological states," he said.

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Theoretical exotic state of matter in which electrons barely interact with each other
More information: Hsin-Hua Lai et al. Weyl–Kondo semimetal in heavy-fermion systems, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (2017). DOI: 10.1073/pnas.1715851115

Journal reference: Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Rice University

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Quote:"Weyl fermions," elusive quantum particles first proposed by Hermann Weyl more than 80 years ago, 
is that they have  Naughty
zero mass.

welll ... heavens to betsy ... they called it a .... Weyl - Kondo semi metal.

That must be what's in some of Kalter's fractals.

Quote:"This allowed us to predict that the electron correlations 
will enhance a particular quantity in the temperature dependence 
of the specific heat 
by a mind-boggling factor of a billion."

Si said this effect is huge,
even by the standard of strongly correlated electron systems, 

and the work points to a larger principle.

there is still no guarantee that our alien visitors ... in the air force pilots story,
are in that 40 foot long tic-tac ... as they called it ...

I watched the Tucker Carlson interview with the pilot.
It was pathetic.
Carlson did a poorer job than CNN's Sciutto.

The pilot went far more into depth on the CNN report.

Of most interest to me,
{as most people focus on the Speedy Gonzales tiddly wink flying helter skelter},
was the pilot's description of the 40 foot object,
hovering over the
"churning sea that was rotating in a clock wise direction".

My take is that there is a much larger entity in near space orbit,
and the subject under water is a much more important part of the whole display.

Jumping to the conclusion that these are spacecraft ... 
in the conventional sense that we understand ... spacecraft,
is quite premature.

It could be alien and made of ... quantum biologic-semi-metal Reefer
primetime living quantum conundrum Whip

that 40 foot tic-tac the pilot describes is an unmanned information intelligence probe, 
and who knows what it is composed of.

or it is all just advanced traditional alien spacecraft ... 
maybe a few hundred years ahead of our hi tech nonsense,
it can still be ... earth born ball lightning phenomena to include:
the "churning clockwise rotating sea"
that the 40 foot tic-tac,
was hovering and bobbing over ...  in all directions - back -- forth --  up -- down,
according to the pilot.

sometimes it moved like it had distinct Intent,
and other times it just bobbed about almost randomly as it hovered.
Classic ball lightning phenomena.

I think a conscious force is involved both in the 40 foot object,
and the large thing in the sea that was churning.
When can an alien species,
develop a technology that ... becomes a living spaceship, a bio-starcruiser.
Maybe the alien itself,
is a form of unknown biologic energy that has consciousness.

maybe I smoke too much Dunno

but the Catch-22 here,
is that,
the military has now allowed full disclosure.
They have a credible pilot that says it's alien,
and nobody is silencing him,
he is being encouraged to tell his alien encounter.

This whole game with the pilot is staged by the Pentagon to access future funding,
for space defense and space weaponry.

It is somewhat predicated upon the pretense of this alien activity -- evidence --being fresh and new, 
when it is over events,
that have been recurrent for the last 50 years of sightings.

I am not convinced this is spacecraft ... not like we understand space craft travel.

What were the circumstances leading 
to the disclosure there's been a secret program all along?

(who'duh thought) 

Public explanations, like the NATO news conference regarding the '90s Belgian sightings,
are the most significant visible result of certain "incidents" which are too widely known
to be covered up with Project Grudge style PR tactics.

Captain Ruppelt's report on Project Sign is still relevant.
Could be A Secret TRUMPIAN AGENDA.

Jimmy Carter Saw a UFO.
After Bill Clinton Failed and Obama Joked with teenagers about little green men Doh
Hillary and John Podesta were the "Disclosure-Circuit" UFOlogy's world's last hope.

And Trump proceeds with Drip-drip-drip disclosure.

Therefore people will stop supporting Clinton because The Don is makin' it happen. Alien2
I just watched the clip with 
Elizondo and he says the same 
as what the Air Force concluded in ~1947...

We're not alone.

What has been NASA's input?
V says -

"maybe I smoke too much [Image: dunno.gif]

but the Catch-22 here, is that,
the military has now allowed full disclosure.
They have a credible pilot that says it's alien,
and nobody is silencing him, he is being encouraged to tell his alien encounter.

This whole game with the pilot is staged by the Pentagon to access future funding,
for space defense and space weaponry.

It is somewhat predicated upon the pretense of this alien activity -- evidence --being fresh and new, 
when it is over events, that have been recurrent for the last 50 years of sightings.

I am not convinced this is spacecraft ... not like we understand space craft travel."

Scratchchin    Smoke too much?    Nonono    Is a pyramid pointed?  Is God universal?   

Another unanswered question is whether the Non-Disclosure Agreements solicited or extorted from UFO/EBE military and civilian incident participants or witnesses during those 50 years are now evacuated, null-and-void, and without merit or are they (as I suspect) still in effect? 

Does Hasting's work with UFO related nuclear weapon intrusions or Richard Dolan's multi-volume history of the US Military's UFO investigations gain further credence now?  Or is everyone still hiding?

We learned years ago that the DOD could not account for over 3 Trillion dollars of expenditure - that was before the war in Iraq, it could be higher now.

So let's double that unaccounted expenditure for classified space weaponry, never mind that we are not allowed to  know what they know.

Hmmm . . . Doh   time someone smoked them out!   Dance004

Quote:Another unanswered question: 
is whether the Non-Disclosure Agreements, 
solicited or extorted, 
from UFO/EBE military and civilian incident participants or witnesses, 
during those 50 years,
are now evacuated, 
and without merit, 
or are they (as I suspect) still in effect?  

My assumption is that the agreements are still in effect,
but not to be enforced any longer.
It doesn't matter how outrageous the stories are anymore.
Now that a former US air force pilot simply stated,
"it is not from this world"
nobody is going to pay a lot of attention to UFO fairy tales,
the Pentagon is telling the fairy tale with more live footage.

The Pentagon and the military just stole the show, the entire circus freak show.
Now they have to create the alien threat.

The next question is ... at what point in the past,
did the air force attempt a direct missile targeting of one of those 40 foot flying tic-tacs?
You can bet they tried it,
they know it's not Russian or Chinese,
somewhere along the line --- contingency confrontation tactics were explored.
The missile was fired,
and the 40 foot tic-tac took off and left the missile in the dust.
No use in trying that again.

Military must already know it is alien without bad intent,
or if it isn't alien activity,
then it's a phenomena like ball lightning,
and the military is exploiting the circumstance for accelerated space weapon funding.

It may be alien, and also may not be mechanical in the sense that we understand.
If it is traditional alien high technology,
with manufactured spacecraft,
well then,
they have been doing what they want here for a while now.

and those aliens ... are ignored by even more advanced alien species passing Hi  by ...

It's a circus freak show of alien critter jitters in spiffy space cadillacs Reefer
cruisin the rings of Saturn with no speed limit,
way too fast for Dorothy and Toto watching it on TV in Kansas.

Alien autopsies are back in vogue.
Alien biologic contamination will be quarantined,
nobody will complain.
All the Hollywood movies have covered much of the human imagination in alien encounters.
Everybody's minds have been media anaesthetised.

The 40 foot tic tac bobbing and weaving aimlessly at times, 
will some day become the 40 foot ... float like a butterfly -- sting like a bee ... military movie.

Suddenly Dorothy is concerned, and hugs Toto tight to her adolescent breasts.
A rumor surges through Kansas of mysterious alien encounters.
A tall slender alien shadow suddenly walks into Dorothy's living room,
seduces and impregnates Dorothy repeatedly, 
with his demon seed.

The alien threat is now real enough to Dorothy,
nobody listened to Dorothy until she had the baby,
and then the corporate military pharmaceutical police force,
came and took her baby away.

...'s the website started by Luis Elizondo (who ran that secret Pentagon UFO Program) and others...
it has other Navy videos of a similar/same object, plus the detailed pilot report).
Also they reported "a fleet of those things"...

I posted a couple of images and the link on FB,'and either nobody cared,
or the link caused it to be only on my personal page.

Well ... a fleet of them, is what the pilot stated.
Hmm2 ponder this on a beer  Hi 

for the record

[Image: HztjDwu.jpg]
Analyzing the Video
As the video starts, this is what the pilots observe from inside their cockpit:
• The sensor is in “white-hot” mode—white elements in the display are warmer than the dark, or cooler, areas. The UAP appears as a white shape in the middle of the screen.
• The chasing aircraft is in a left-hand turn flying Mach 0.58 at an altitude of 25,010 feet.
• The UAP is flying slightly below 2 degrees and 54 degrees to the left of the Super Hornet, traveling right to left.
• Looking closely, we can see a dark, or opaque field that appears to surround or encapsulate the object.
The pilots aboard the Super Hornet are not only highly capable fighter pilots, but they are trained observers skilled at scrutinizing their observations and targets in order to ascertain “friend or foe.” They are specifically trained to look for discreet changes in shape, size position, flight attitude (angles), and speed in order to determine the nature of the threat. They are able to discern nuanced details that few people would normally recognize. Paramount to their training is their ability to handle stress and maintain radio discipline. In the footage audio, they are clearly struggling to understand what they are witnessing.
At 0:03, in the first radio transmission, we hear one of the pilots state that it is “a [expletive] drone” aircraft.
At 0:06, upon further observation, a different observer calmly states, “There is a whole fleet of them. Look on the ASA (radar display).” The first observer responds with “My gosh!” It is important to note that the ATFLIR has only a single object in its display. The radar is simultaneously providing the pilots a picture of the larger air space, where they are tracking multiple targets.
At 0:11, it is noted that “They are all going against the wind. The wind is 120 knots (138 mph) out of the west.” We can see that the speed and altitude of the object is unusual for any drone-type aircraft. On that information alone, the likelihood of an entire fleet of drones capable of operating under this scenario is highly improbable and would require resources only few nations could afford.
In the midst of this exchange, the sensor is switched from “white-hot” to “black-hot.” The imaging of the object is now much clearer. It has a distinct shape: a distorted oval with small protrusions from the top and bottom. The object’s opaque aura is now also very distinct: a “cool” glow that extends about a body thickness around the entire object. There appears to be no observable flight surfaces or exhaust plume, nor any typical components usually associated with conventional aircraft.
“Look at that thing, dude.” The observer is clearly surprised at what is being seen.
At 0:24, the object makes a small, but very sharp, altitude change, possibly indicating it may be operating in a vacuum environment. Its direction and speed remain unchanged despite the continuous 120-knot headwind it is encountering.
“That’s not [unintelligible] is it?”
At 0:27, the object begins a series of distinct rotations and changes orientation by almost 100 degrees. Its orientation is now perpendicular to the horizontal plane despite the headwinds. This maneuver is executed in a manner that is inconsistent with current principles of aerodynamicsand possibly indicative of a vacuum environment. As the video concludes, the object's orientation and performance seem to defy current principals of physics to include atmospheric resistance and normal aerodynamic forces. During the orientation change, it also slows to a near stop, but does not change altitude.
One observer states, “Look at that thing!”
Another observer says, “It’s rotating.”
With the chain-of-custody documentation, GIMBAL can officially be designated as credible, authentic “evidence” of a UAP. Evidence of a flying vehicle with a shape normally associated with something out of science fiction. Currently there are no other known technologies that we can compare to what is being observed in both performance and design, which means there’s a craft that demonstrates flight characteristics unlike anything we know, understand, or can duplicate. Because we cannot duplicate these flight characteristics, we can conclude that the object is employing technologies that are more advanced than our own.
GIMBAL is just one of several official videos obtained by TTS Academy that can be interpreted as credible proof that the physics of advanced flight exists. We are also in the process of collecting additional data from both military and civilian personnel and sensors. The question now changes from “Can it be done?” to “How is it done?”  Arrow

Currently there are no other known technologies that we can compare to what is being observed in both performance and design, which means there’s a craft that demonstrates flight characteristics unlike anything we know, understand, or can duplicate.  Naughty

Urzhumov also says that his theories and calculations have many potential applications outside of the ocean. Similar designs could be used to create a distributed ion propulsion system for spacecraft or to suppress plasma instabilities in prototypes for thermonuclear fusion reactors.

"I believe these ideas are going to flourish in several of these fields," said Urzhumov. "It is a very exciting time."

The question now changes from “Can it be done?” to “How is it done?”  Arrow 
[Image: ele-kelvinwake-2.png]
Electromagnetic water cloak eliminates drag and wake
December 11, 2017 by Ken Kingery, Duke University

[Image: electromagne.jpg]
A schematic for a prototype of the proposed water cloaking device. It consists of wires and coils that create an electromagnetic field that acts on dissolved ions to move water around the object. Credit: Duke University
Researchers have developed a water cloaking concept based on electromagnetic forces that could eliminate an object's wake, greatly reducing its drag while simultaneously helping it avoid detection.

The idea originated at Duke University in 2011 when researchers outlined the general concept. By matching the acceleration of the surrounding water to an object's movement, it would theoretically be possible to greatly increase its propulsion efficiency while leaving the surrounding sea undisturbed. The theory was an extension of the group's pioneering work in metamaterials, where a material's structure, rather than its chemistry, creates desired properties.
Six years later, Yaroslav Urzhumov, adjunct assistant professor of electrical and computer engineering at Duke, has updated the theory by detailing a potential approach. But rather than using a complex system of very small pumps as originally speculated, Urzhumov is turning to electromagnetic fields and the dense concentration of charged particles found in saltwater.
The study appears online in the journal Physical Review E on December 7, 2017.
"The original idea was so big that it enticed colleagues at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center to help us pursue it, even though they were incredibly skeptical," said Urzhumov, who was among the researchers who worked on the original 2011 paper. "Since then, we have identified a path to materializing this seemingly impossible proposal."
The crux of the issue being addressed is that water is a relatively viscous liquid that, when moved, likes to pull its surroundings along for the ride through shear forces. A fish feels much heavier being pulled through the water than lifted through open air because of all the water dragged along with it.
Besides essentially pulling extra water, drag can also be increased by how water flows around an object. A hydrodynamic object with fluid flowing smoothly along its surface creates much less drag than a blocky object that creates a mess of chaotic, turbulent flows in its wake.
The solution to these issues is to move the water out of the way. By accelerating the water around the object to match its speed, shear forces and turbulent flows can both be avoided.

"There are many ways to reduce wake and drag, like surrounding an object with low-friction bubbles, which is actually done with some naval torpedoes," said Urzhumov. "But there's only so much you can do if you're just applying forces at the surface. This cloaking idea opens a new dimension to create forces around an underwater vessel or object, which is absolutely required to achieve full wake cancellation."
[Image: 1-electromagne.jpg]
A rough prototype of the proposed water cloaking device being tested inside of an aquarium. Credit: Duke University
Urzhumov originally envisioned a sort of truss-like frame enveloping an object with thin structures and tiny pumps to accelerate its flow as it passed through. But as time went by, he decided a more practical approach would be to use "magnetohydrodynamic" forces.
When a charged particle travels through an electromagnetic field, the field creates a force on the particle. Because ocean water is chock full of ions like sodium, potassium and magnesium, there are a lot of charged particles to push. The idea isn't as crazy as it may sound—Japan built a prototype passenger ship in 1991 called the Yamato 1 using these forces as a means of propulsion, but found the approach was not more efficient than traditional propellers.
In the new paper, Urzhumov and his graduate student, Dean Culver, use fluid dynamics simulations to show how a water cloak might be achieved using this approach. By controlling the velocity and direction of the water surrounding a moving object, the simulations show such a system can match the water's movement within the cloak to that of the surrounding sea.
This would make it appear that the water inside the cloak is completely stagnant in relation to the water outside of the cloak, eliminating the drag and wake. Of course, practical implementations aren't perfect, so some drag and wake would remain in any realization of the device.
While the simulations used a cloaking shell half the width of the object itself, the calculations show the shell could theoretically be as thin as you wanted it to be. Another important result was that the forces inside the shell would not have to change directions as the object sped up, they would only need more power.
"That is one of the major achievements of this paper," said Urzhumov. "If you don't have to adjust the distribution of forces, you don't need any electronic switches or other means of dynamic control. You can set the structure with a specific configuration and simply crank up the current as the object speeds up."
Urzhumov says that for an actual ship or submarine to ever use such a device, it would need a nuclear reactor to power it, given the enormous energy requirements to cloak an object of that size. That does not mean, however, that a smaller diesel vessel could not power a smaller cloaking device to shield potentially vulnerable protrusions from detection.
Urzhumov also says that his theories and calculations have many potential applications outside of the ocean. Similar designs could be used to create a distributed ion propulsion system for spacecraft or to suppress plasma instabilities in prototypes for thermonuclear fusion reactors.
"I believe these ideas are going to flourish in several of these fields," said Urzhumov. "It is a very exciting time."
[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Effortless sailing with fluid flow cloak
More information: Dean Culver et al. Forced underwater laminar flows with active magnetohydrodynamic metamaterials, Physical Review E (2017). DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevE.96.063107

Journal reference: Physical Review E [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Duke University

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More information: Dean Culver et al. Forced underwater laminar flows with active magnetohydrodynamic metamaterials, Physical Review E (2017). [url=]DOI: 10.1103/PhysRevE.96.063107

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Physicists find evidence of an exotic state of matter
December 22, 2017, Heidelberg University

[Image: 1-physicistsfi.jpg]
In a known and well-understood scenario, pairing is caused solely by the attraction between two fermions (green lines). However, Heidelberg scientists found that with strong interactions between the fermions, a different type of pairing takes place, which strongly depends on the density of the surrounding medium (gray shaded regions). This suggests that in this state, each particle is not only paired with one other particle, but that there are additional correlations with other particles in its surroundings. Credit: Puneet Murthy

Using ultracold atoms, researchers at Heidelberg University have found an exotic state of matter where the constituent particles pair up when limited to two dimensions. The findings from the field of quantum physics may hold important clues to intriguing phenomena of superconductivity. The results were published in Science.

Superconductors are materials through which electricity can flow without any resistance once they are cooled below a certain critical temperature. The technologically most relevant class of materials, with exceptionally high critical temperatures for superconductivity, is poorly understood so far. There is evidence, however, that in order for superconductivity to occur, a certain type of particles – the fermions – must pair up. Moreover, research has shown that materials which become superconducting at relatively high temperatures have layered structures. "This means that electrons in these systems can only move in two-dimensional planes", explains Prof. Dr. Selim Jochim of Heidelberg University's Institute for Physics, who heads the project. "What we did not understand until now was how the interplay of pairing and dimensionality can lead to higher critical temperatures."
To explore this question, researchers at the Center for Quantum Dynamics performed experiments in which they confined a gas of ultracold atoms in two-dimensional traps which they created using focused laser beams. "In solid-state materials like copper oxides, there are many different effects and impurities that make these materials difficult to study. That is why we use ultracold atoms to simulate the behaviour of electrons in solids. This allows us to create very clean samples and gives us full control over the essential system parameters", says Puneet Murthy, a Ph.D. student at the Center for Quantum Dynamics at Heidelberg University and one of the lead authors of this publication.
Using a technique known as radio-frequency spectroscopy, the researchers measured the response of the atoms to a radio-wave pulse. From this response, they could tell exactly whether or not the particles were paired and in what way. These measurements were also performed for different strengths of interaction between fermions. In the course of the experiments, the researchers discovered an exotic state of matter. Theory states that fermions with a weak interaction should pair up at the temperature at which they become superconductive. However, when the scientists increased the interaction between fermions, they found that pairing occurred at temperatures several times higher than the critical temperature.
"To achieve our ultimate goal of better understanding these phenomena, we will start with small systems that we put together atom by atom", says Prof. Jochim.
[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Theoretical physicists model complex quantum processes with cold atoms and ions
More information: Puneet A. Murthy et al. High-temperature pairing in a strongly interacting two-dimensional Fermi gas, Science (2017). DOI: 10.1126/science.aan5950

Journal reference: Science [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Heidelberg University

Read more at:

Also one version of the UFO clip shows for ~1 sec.
the object at 2X mag.
The image was more like a pointed star...
maybe a sensor artifact?
Kalter can you identify  the time frame, you refer to?

The two videos ... if those "drones" are actually a manufactured alien technology,
did we see two different drones?
from the "fleet" of drones ...

then I see this:

Quote:there appear to be no observable flight surfaces

I want it ... to be something different than just a hi tech manufactured alien drone.
that is perhaps my problem ... Hmm2 

I am still not convinced these drones / probes are mechanical.

So look to the bigger picture.

"fleet" of drones, ...
one drone seen bobbing about with churning bubbling sea below {pilot interview CNN}, ...
flight mission off the coast of San Diego somewhere ...

The pilot actually stated that there was a "disturbance" in the sea,
when the drone was just overhead, in the interview.
I interpret that as something in the sea.

the object --- bobbed back and forth ... up and down ... "like a ping pong ball" - pilot.
{over the disturbance in the sea}

---> that does not sound ... like an alien mechanised drone  Nonono

wtf is off the coast of San Diego that would interest an alien contingency with a fleet of drones?

If there is a "fleet of drones",
what did they emerge from?

A mother ship in near space?

A possible object in the "churning bubbling sea" ?
wtf is off the coast of San Diego that would warrant a "fleet of drones"?
An ancient alien underwater base?

Or, they aren't drones at all, and they -- may -- still be alien.


the bobbing and weaving "ping pong ball" effect ... 
then suddenly,
altering ... behavior to seemingly directed flight pattern with intent ... 
is very similar to ball lightning accounts.

On the homepage of the site is a link to NYT file footage.
On the Nimitz FLIR1 clip at 1:30 there is a momentary switch to 2X.
That would need further processing to remove the star spikes
(if they are just sensor artifacts).

Also, Elizondo says these objects exhibit "positive lift"...
and the churning water effects show some sort of very localized field.
"Paramagnetism" rings a bell...

Search/ positive lift exhibited by ufo
Black Project guys having a little fun with the people who don't have " need to know"... Split_spawn
HRM posted this on my FB post on this subject:

Assange stepped into deep shit even getting involved,
and he becomes a facet of the fake news himself.

Read the comments!

this was my response on FB to hrm { an old HM visitor}

Quote:The Puthuff material is old. 
Assange stepped into deep shit making his comments and becomes a facet of the fake news himself, 
There is NO QUESTION, 
that the entire affair with this UFO footage release is ---> Pentagon mass distraction politics.<--- 
However, those are UFO's, ... the question is ... are they alien ... ?
look to the behavior of the glowing orbs that were followed by the pilots. 

When the pilot followed the UFO towards the water, 
the UFO hovered over the water as it churned in a clock wise direction. 
The object then exhibited highly random movements, 
"like a ping pong ball bouncing up and down -- back and forth" -- quote the pilot --
and  this is not indicative of anything with "drone capacity" -- as we know it. ... 

This phenomena actually is highly reminiscent of -- ball lightning movement, <--- 
in which random movement is suddenly altered into movement that appears to have intent. ... 
If these are alien "drones" 
they were observed by the pilots to have "no observable exterior surface" --- ie ... 
if they are alien technology, this is not a manufactured machine --- 
if alien -- as a drone {which it may be} 
then it is a high tech energy field or cohesive energy condensate that is manipulated from a central location -- 
either from a mother ship in orbit, 
or whatever may have been stationed under water when the drone was hovering over the water. --- 

However, ball lightning phenomena have been known to occur in great numbers - aka - the "fleet". ...
these are not manufactured machines -- is the point. ---

the suspicious nature of "disclosure" does indicate that something is up, -- most likely mass distraction politics -- 
and as such the evidence points more to ball lightning phenomena. ..

One however cannot just toss the evidence out the window in the case of alien hi tech possibilities. --
It is highly possible as well, that indeed, 
we have an alein source of high technology beyond our understanding which can manipulate - 
energy fields - 
SIMILAR to ball lightning phenomena. -- 

I am not convinced that these are alien, 
but I am convinced that whatever these glowing huge energy fields are, 
they are not manufactured materials in the sense as we envision them. 

They do not have advanced metallic or composite material techology in their forms, or are they occupied. --- 

For Assange to get even involved in this ... 
he just lost an enormous amount of credibility -- and he allowed himself to be -- faked -- into -- fake news.

An interesting conjecture, Vianova, as always you bring impressive analytical skills to this issue.

I have a couple of questions.  Does ball lightning return a radar display?  Does a ball lightning radar return yield images with protrusions on opposite sides of the image even as the image rotates?  Do ball lightning radar returns normally (or ever) occur in "flocks" or "fleets"? 

If ball lightning does in fact return these kinds of images and radar returns why have they not been documented, reported upon, become a normal part of pilot instruction/training and therefore have been recognized by these very real and experienced hot-shot naval aviators as a natural expression of our atmosphere?

If these pilots and radar operators cannot recognize a natural phenomena like ball lightning and are so surprised they cannot recognize the phenomena, why are they flying our most sophisticated and advanced aerial weapons?

An excellent recent summary from Stanford University of the latest research results and speculation about ball lightning can be found at:

A search of "ball lightning radar returns" will confirm all naturally occurring ball lightning observations indicate the phenomena rarely lasts longer than 20 seconds, is usually less than 20cm in diameter, is transitory and most often linked to weather storm conditions. 

I have not found ANY observations of ball lightning that suggest ball lightning is a normal radar return, that there are"fleets" of observations (multiple ball lightnings at the same "place" acting synchronously that have been observed and recorded), very long-lasting radar and visual observations, structured protuberances in rotating radar images, or any indication of  ocean-dwelling ball lightning (!), nor I have found any reference to ball lightning lasting many minutes tracked by military radars.

So where is the evidence for the argument this is ball lightning?  I have not found it yet, are there answers to the above questions?    Hmm2

ps Vianova, please pass the previous message to HRM and tell him/her I miss their presence here.

Well, you missed the "no observable surfaces" part,
and when you see a jet or a drone from those distances,
as the pilot indicated,
they have observable surfaces and recognizable origin.
I called it Ball Lightning -- Phenomema Whip
by the ways,
that is far more broad ranged than your Stanford material you posted.
 ... that the UFO flight exhibited ... 
.... ball lightning flight behavior,
which it absolutely did.

I don't think it matters if it is Ball Lightning or advanced UFO alien technology,
what matters is why is it released now,
with so many holes Whip in the story?
It's mass demographic baiting of some sort,
and smells of distraction politics from Pentagon information sources.

What do we really know ? 

The same infrastructure that released these two videos,
have evidence of alien existence hidden away,
that makes those punk ass videos what they are:
low rent, low budget, 
rank early 60's style Hollywood junk,
and even though real,
they are some kind of propaganda ploy in media manipulation distraction politics. 

Give us the alien Hi  autopsies, and not the downtown in clowntown media event.

I think that the Pentagon knows that whatever these objects are,
they are, or have been harmless,
and they have been appearing for a very long time, 
like since WWII, at least.

On the issue of radar, and drones and ball lightning.

Ball lightning is associated with fusion experiments.
It was the old Russian research 7-10 years ago,
that made the little balls of ball lightning .. were fusion experiments.
I used to read and research most ball lightning events that were documented at the time.
first let me defend "ball lightning --> phenomena"
You assume that a 40 foot Ball Lightning Phenomena does not exist,
from a statistic in a Stanford paper that is obviously flawed.
There is lots of evidence to the contrary,
both on size and duration of ball lightning accounts.
There are all kinds of ball lightning type phenomena <---

[Image: article-2528351-1A4412C000000578-888_634x387.jpg]
chinese analysis

here is one account 5 meters in size -- lasted 1.6 seconds Lol

Obviously 40 feet wide ...seems a little odd.
This also goes wayyyyy back to the old PUP forum days,
and the aspect of these phenomena being birthed from the Earth,
under specific conditions,
as conscious plasma lifeforms of energy. 
That of course involved multiple sightings of multiple objects,
that lasted much longer <---
than the standard time allotted in the Stanford report and others.

well heavens to betsy ... but then ...

So one of the suggestions,
that I made on the current flying UFO glowing tic tacs Whip 
was that these objects were an energy field technology,
controlled from an external source,
not necessarily a manufactured alien drone technology,
with advanced composites and metals and electronics,
but far beyond that,
and as such it is very similar in action and appearance to ball lightning phenomena,
the observations of the UFO bobbing back and forth, up and down,
like a ping pong ball as it hovered over the water,
then ,'
almost seemingly regaining ... intent ... to move with authroity.

 The ... drone ... may have been parked in ... neutral Lol
as it hovered over the water exhibiting that behavior.
It bobbed about like a ping pong ball,
then suddenly took off with Intent.
That is exactly what old accounts of Ball Lightning observed in many cases.

Ok, now to manufactured alien drone technologoies.

I thought about this earlier,
maybe it also could be that --- within a "40 foot tic tac" shaped
confined energy Reefer plasma field,
is a much smaller actual manufactured physical object -- 
the actual alien high technology drone is a ... 
beach ball to kayak size for instance,
that is generating a very much larger energy field around it,
such that you cannot see the actual drone,
and the "energy field" ... is what allows the wild propulsion technology.

Sorry, I just get the sense that these objects may not be manufactured objects,
in the sense of a drone with advanced metals and composites and electronics,
I think if it is alien, 
the technology may go way beyond that,
and the aliens care little about the threat of US air power.

So what business do you think these alien ball lightning afficonados  Naughty  have here?
why are they ... 60 - 100 miles,
off the coast of San Diego ... ---> for two weeks on the radar?

Maybe they are ... whale Reefer watching.
Might be a lot of dolphins pooling up nearby for the event as well, if so.



let me rephrase it in a different perspective

I can speculate on all possibilities,
because definitive evidence presented by the videos only presents an unrecognizable object.
In relation to objects such as Ball Lightning -- Phenomena,
that are also large in size,
and have been observed for long periods of time,
as glowing objects  -- that move about both with intent and random action,
-- through the skies alone, or in observable numbers --
or in this case of these UFO's, 
that came down from 80000 feet to 20000 feet by the dozens,
those objects may be the actual aliens,
or aliens inside something that we don't understand at all,
and they can travel interstellar space in their form of life, 
just as much as it could be a fleet of alien drones ... doing what?
60-100 miles off the coast of San Diego.

It is perplexing.
"drone" is misleading terminology to say the least.

Yes, I agree the real question is why this is released now and to what effect.  There must be meta-story hype.

Yes, the UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) have been well documented since at least WW2, 88 years.

Yes, ball lightning is a well known (albeit sometimes mysterious) natural phenomena that can take multiple forms for varying lengths of time.

And yes, I admit that I am not familiar with the full range of ball lightning research and documentation and am therefore ignorant of basic facts.

Questions remain:

Does ball lightning return a radar image and what does that return look like?  How long do the returns last and how do they behave and move?  

Does ball lightning return identical radar images to multiple receivers in multiple locations, both surface and airborne, simultaneously?

Wook - can you help here?
I recall you once said you served on Orion sub-chasers during your military career.  Does ball lightning in thunderstorms return radar images?  Can you remember ever seeing ball lightning or hearing about such returns and what they looked like?

Does ball lightning occur in "fleets" as recorded in the video?  Plausible possibly, but have multiple radar return "fleets" of ball lightning returns been documented before this event?

Hmm2 I feel the approach of Occam's blade . . .

But there is more . . .  Doh

Why do our best trained pilots with the highest tech weaponry and sensors and at least 88 years of documented UAP experience and information (with Foo fighters etc.) react with such surprise and astonishment to an admittedly mysterious but completely natural transitory phenomenon?   These pilots fly under all weather conditions and see lots of things, so why is this event unique?  Is it unique?

Hi   and V is right:

"It is perplexing.
"drone" is misleading terminology to say the least."

Yes, I wonder, has that always been the problem . . . what to call something we do not understand?   Hmm2


I doubt that radar tracks the ball lightning the Stanford group studies,
in the classic smaller sizes.
Radar may indeed however track a 40 foot wide ball lightning phenomena,
especially if it has a generated energy field from a smaller object traveling within. 
all the old sightings of these types of objects,
that exhibited these --- random --- and also intentful movements,
which glowed,
and flew about sometimes in patterned groups of a dozen,
had attributions of ball lightning phenomena, to explain the phenomena.
They were also called UFOs,
and they were also suggested to be alien by many people,

I already told you that ball lightning appears in large numbers often.
the word "fleet" is just as misleading as "drone"

One classic case was a series of these objects flying about a wind turbine farm,
reported by many people witnessing the event.
One of them flew through a moving turbine blade,
and fried a hole right through it.
I think it was the British military that retrieved the turbine blade for study.
That case and many like it ... disappear from the news record <--- over the years.
There are oodles of cases of these glowing ball lightning -- like -- phenomena,
documented as being chased by British military in helicopters etc., 
over long distances of farmland

So I have some questions for you.
Do you think the UFO is a manufactured trechnology ... with advanced nano composite surfaces, 
or special space travel metallic surfaces ... with electronic machinery inside?
Do you think it is a 40 wide encapsulated solid object with some form of the above materials, 
that form a solid surface?

Please explain the nature of the random oddball movements <---,
as the UFO hovered above the water.
{the ping poing effect} -- as being a drone or an occupied alien craft ? 
and then the sudden movement of the object that exhibited Intent in directional movement.
that part especially,
brings ball lightning phenomena into the mix.

Can advanced alien technology create an energy sheath that a living thing can travel in?
The Vishnu energy sheath.
I believe that is real and possible.
We have no idea what level of evolutionary alien is at hand, if it is at hand.

The cross galactic Jump Door travel ... used to deplete the Caleban ... in the book Whipping Star.

Spock got saved by the transporter beam ...
Just exactly what happens to a living thing when transported by ... transport beam to the surface?
or back up to the ship?
does it travel in a glowing orb of light ... at wild speeds?

You are right about one thing, I went off on a tangent,
because I don't think what we see is definitively mechanical.

And I think that we are all too mentally aligned to think about space travel, 
from the primitive perspective of our miniscule history in space travel,
and the Hollywood fantasy spaceships.

I think that to confine the phenomena to a classic manufactured alien drone, 
or alien travel pod that is manufactured in a spaceship factory in another star system,
is limiting the possibilities of what type of alien is being encountered.

V said:

"So I have some questions for you.
Do you think the UFO is a manufactured trechnology ... with advanced nano composite surfaces, 
or special space travel metallic surfaces ... with electronic machinery inside?
Do you think it is a 40 wide encapsulated solid object with some form of the above materials, 
that form a solid surface?"

I believe that the technology that you describe is possible, maybe inevitable and certainly extant in the infinite universe of all possibilities, but based upon the available evidence I just don't know and therefore can only speculate.  

Please explain the nature of the random oddball movements <---,
as the UFO hovered above the water.
{the ping poing effect} -- as being a drone or an occupied alien craft ? 
and then the sudden movement of the object that exhibited Intent in directional movement.
that part especially,
brings ball lightning phenomena into the mix.

I recall Kenneth Arnold's description (He is best known for making what is generally considered the first widely reported unidentified flying object sighting in the United States, after claiming to have seen nine unusual objects flying in tandem near Mount Rainier, ...) including the observation that the objects seemed to shift, wobble, or flutter like falling leaves while maintaining a stable upwind vector while still in formation.  Can I explain it (the nature of oddball random movements)?  No, I cannot explain it but I can try to remember, learn and correlate the very limited data available. 

Can advanced alien technology create an energy sheath that a living thing can travel in?
The Vishnu energy sheath.
I believe that is real and possible.
We have no idea what level of evolutionary alien is at hand, if it is at hand.

Since we are clearly in speculative territory here, I agree V.  I also think "an energy sheath that a living thing can travel in"  is possible, maybe some would call it the soul.     Doh


Let me reiterate my extreme ignorance since I think it is not obvious enough:  

A simple search of "radar returns for ball lightning" yields many images but without the coordination of multiple ball lightning events acting in concert as (a "fleet?") recorded in this video under current discussion, so what am I missing?

If "Foo fighters",  UAPs, "flying saucers" or whatever have been observed and documented for at least 88 years by our best military instruments, technology and scientific minds, and if this is a natural and/or normal phenomena why do these pilots express such surprise? 

Just wondering . . .   Hmm2

no I wasn't talking about a soul,
in the Vishnu sheath, not at all,
which is why I offered the transport beam analogy.
I am saying that there may be sentient highly intelligent alien lifeforms,
that don't need spacecraft to travel, in the sense of what we understand space craft to be. 

If you can't outright say that you think it is it is alien machinery that is flying as that UFO,
I don't understand where you are coming from,
other than I confused you from the get go with ball lightning, 
and that is certainly understandable,
I am speculating along a broad range of possibilities.

to be clear and simple about it:

I don't think the 40 foot wide / long object, is a 40 foot wide / long -- physical capsule.
The radar observation certainly implies that something physical is there.
We don't know what the UFO is composed of, that the radar may pick up.

The aspect of the random movement so excruciatingly out of control,
"randomly bobbing back and forth, up and down like a ping pong ball"
while hovering over the water,
then taking off in a directional pattern suddenly almost with intent,
has only one documented correlation,
other than UFO, 
and that is observed ball lightning behavior in many old accounts.

I looked at the recent Chinese research from the one link earlier posted and followed it to a pdf,
you may like this for ball lightning research info in the link below,

Quote:Researchers from Zhejiang University in Hangzhou, China
 have proposed that the bright glow of lightning balls
is created when microwaves become trapped inside a plasma bubble.

'At the tip of a lightning stroke reaching the ground,
a relativistic electron bunch can be produced,
which in turn excites intense microwave radiation,'
the scientists said in a research paper published in Scientific Reports.
'The latter ionizes the local air and the radiation pressure evacuates the resulting plasma,
forming a spherical plasma bubble that stably traps the radiation.'

Microwaves trapped inside the continue to generate plasma for a moments
to maintain the bright flashes seen during ball lightning, they added.
The fireball eventually fades away as the radiation held within the bubble starts to dissipate -
and when microwaves leak out, the lightning balls can dramatically explode.

The Russians did a lot of ball lightning fusion energy research.
The Chinese research involves microwaves,
trapped inside plasma bubbles of radiation ...
So the implications of what I am referring to --- is harnessing the energies of ball lightning phenomema,
and associated fusion power research ... ? 
and or microwave propulsion? 
ancient alien innovation?

fascinating article actually, 
yet still constrained to smaller phenomena, yet an interesting theory.

Relativistic-microwave theory of ball lightning


how reliable is ... old news ?
the old mexican air force video -- 
hotly debated,
the official debunk-- was oil platform flames in burnoff on the ground surface ...
I am not so sure about that,
and supposedly the full video is 30 minutes long.
The lights were filmed on March 5 by pilots using infrared equipment. 
They appeared to be flying at an altitude of about 11,500 feet, 
and reportedly surrounded the jet 
as it conducted routine anti-drug trafficking vigilance in Campeche. 
Only three of the objects showed up on the plane’s radar.

Mexican air force pilots

the debunk -- be sure to read all the comments

debunking the debunk? --- {I have never seen this one before}
you might like this one, 
it has an amusing observation of the UFO object, 
I was surprised to hear him say it ...




just occured to me ... 


The Mexican air force video event,
and the US air force video event,
were both in 2004 !

this popular mechanics article has more detail on the 2004 US pilot accounts

Quote:Radar Whip
The USS Princeton was able to ---> faintly track the “capsule” via its SPY-1B radar system,
but the fighters Nonono
were not able to get a radar lock on the object. Whip
The USS Princeton observed the UFO on radar, 
and six Super Hornets—twelve pilots and weapons system operators—saw the objects. 

There are several interesting details about the sighting here. 
For one, there were clearly two unidentified objects. 
The first was a large underwater object that was “much larger than a submarine.”

 It is described as “wingless, white, and shaped like an oblong pill.
It was 24-30 (40 in the NYT article) feet long, 
had no visible markings or glass. 

last paragraph doesn't sound like a glowing object,
but the size discrepancy in reports is concerning.
It also is not a sphere,
though large ball lightning phenomena have oblong shapes as well, 
but the classic shape is a sphere.

Fascinating!  The idea that active radar emitters could themselves be responsible for generating or augmenting a ball lightning effect reminds me of an experiment I once read about at an anti-gravity site.  Light a candle inside a microwave oven and set it for high and ball lightning will result.  I have not tried this (yet?) but your post makes me wonder if indeed all these "phenomena" are in fact "created" by the realization of their observation . . .  think the aerial equivalent of Schrodinger's cat?  It appears when we look for it.  Would foo fighters be found without radars?

But I digress, you said:

"If you can't outright say that you think it is it is alien machinery that is flying as that UFO,
I don't understand where you are coming from,
other than I confused you from the get go with ball lightning, 
and that is certainly understandable,
I am speculating along a broad range of possibilities."

Sorry V, I am not trying to be cute and evade your question.  I have read about and studied this issue for several decades and do think there is ample reputable evidence and testimony confirming the existence of a non-terrestrial presence, whether as "alien machinery" or a projected sentience from another planet, star or dimension.  In fact, I suspect Earth may host one or more of all the above.

But suspicion and belief are not necessarily correlated with evidence and reality.

Eventually it becomes an epistemological question; What constitutes viable evidence that the engaged parties will accept? 

Which data or which kinds of data do we accept as evidence, or proof, or even as valid results for any particular experiment or question?

  I also speculate along a broad range of possibilities and attempt to surf the wave of unfurling consciousness, thank you for your assistance.     Smile

The idea that active radar emitters could themselves be responsible 
for generating or augmenting a ball lightning effect 

I didn't interpret that type of possibility from the report at all.
What I read was that;
the air force jets,
could not read the objects on the radar <----
the cruiser,
only faintly could read a radar signal.

Quote:Radar [Image: whip.gif]

The USS Princeton was able to ---> faintly track the “capsule” via its SPY-1B radar system,
but the fighters [Image: nonono.gif]
were not able to get a radar lock on the object. [Image: whip.gif]

The USS Princeton observed the UFO on radar, 

and six Super Hornets—twelve pilots and weapons system operators—saw the objects. 

I seriously doubt that radar emitters caused any ball lightning phenomena.
I am curious as to where you got that interpretation, 
or were you being sarcastic?

What do you think about the Mexican air force sighting?
UFO's or oil platform burns on the surface?
Did you read the comments in the debunk link?
Or the video debunking the debunk?

It is an interesting debunk actually,
but I don't buy it.
I think they are UFO's and the oil platform flames are nonsense.
The debunkers relied on the premise that Mexican pilots are stupid,
and cannot tell a surface light from 11000 feet ... from a UFO flying next to them.

Well, maybe a little bit sarcastic, but do a search of "how to make ball lightning" and you will find microwave emitters (radars)  can easily be used to create the phenomena at home in your own kitchen with your Walmart grade microwave on full power.  The extreme high power and sculpted frequencies used by modern military radars far exceed the power and precision of a kitchen appliance, so yes, a little bit sarcastic.

I was trying to raise the broader speculation of a standing wave phenomena resolving into an observation and the role of the observer as informed by our current understanding of the quantum universe.  Think double-slit experiment, are UFO/UAPs solid particles or waves?  Both? What determines the observation or manifestation? 

Sorry to mislead with abstruse meanders but as we develop our own nano-fabricated meta-materials that defy "normal" observations the question seemed relevant.

At some risk of Beat_deadhorse

The two pilots were interviewed on Fox news and said the object began to "mirror their flight path" and climb toward their planes.  They also said the ship had been tracking "them" for two weeks but this was the first time that planes were in the air while they were spotted.

So you called it V, nano meta-magic oblate spheroid Tic-Tacs that don't exactly act like ping pong balls but absolutely confirm a mysterious presence.

p.s. the overarching meta-story is still the most significant thing . . .
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