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[video:1svpac3k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU[/video:1svpac3k]

Fuck I need to figure out a way to get my kid out of the charter and homeschool. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/stars.gif" alt="Stars" title="stars" />
<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/uhoh.gif" alt="Uhoh" title="uhoh" />
I can't look. I'm sure it will ruin my day.
The same kind of stuff was going on when i was in elementary school during Reagan's tenure. We had drills about hiding under our desks in case of nuclear attacks, because everyone knows wooden school desks are a great shield against nuclear fallout. Reagan was made out to be some super hero type figure, we would watch propaganda cartoons with Uncle Sam portrayed as some giant savior of the planet.

This is nothing new. Rocky movies, the US hockey team, the WWF, etc etc, there was so much nationalistic propaganda bullshit going on in the media during the 80's, this crap with Obama doesn't even hold a candle to it.


I am not blind to Obama's faults whatsoever, but there is just so much nonsensical hype being made around such trivial matters, it really is just pointless.
Quote:so much nonsensical hype being made around such trivial matters, it really is just pointless.

I do not consider indroctanation trivial from eithier the right or left. Do you have kids ChunkB? I take it your okay with this shit in the schools.
Quote:The same kind of stuff was going on when i was in elementary school during Reagan's tenure. We had drills about hiding under our desks in case of nuclear attacks, because everyone knows wooden school desks are a great shield against nuclear fallout. Reagan was made out to be some super hero type figure, we would watch propaganda cartoons with Uncle Sam portrayed as some giant savior of the planet.

This is nothing new. Rocky movies, the US hockey team, the WWF, etc etc, there was so much nationalistic propaganda bullshit going on in the media during the 80's, this crap with Obama doesn't even hold a candle to it.


I am not blind to Obama's faults whatsoever, but there is just so much nonsensical hype being made around such trivial matters, it really is just pointless.
No shit? I'm glad I missed that charming bit of Americana. I wasn't in school then and didn't have kids in school. I was living in the country. We got 3 tv channels, a few more if we went out and adjusted the antenna.
Quote:[quote author="ChunkB"]The same kind of stuff was going on when i was in elementary school during Reagan's tenure. We had drills about hiding under our desks in case of nuclear attacks, because everyone knows wooden school desks are a great shield against nuclear fallout. Reagan was made out to be some super hero type figure, we would watch propaganda cartoons with Uncle Sam portrayed as some giant savior of the planet.

This is nothing new. Rocky movies, the US hockey team, the WWF, etc etc, there was so much nationalistic propaganda bullshit going on in the media during the 80's, this crap with Obama doesn't even hold a candle to it.


I am not blind to Obama's faults whatsoever, but there is just so much nonsensical hype being made around such trivial matters, it really is just pointless.
No shit? I'm glad I missed that charming bit of Americana. I wasn't in school then and didn't have kids in school. I was living in the country. We got 3 tv channels, a few more if we went out and adjusted the antenna.[/quote]


I was in college during most of the Bush/Reagan run and had a great English teacher who 'got it' and was always having 'political propaganda' days events where he'd run all kinds of public messages, blurbs, advertisements, movies etc that the government had put out to gear us up properly for the 'Cold War'... so much was so laughably bizarre and weak-like being stoned watching the shit. There was propaganda put out then too which was the point and we did a lot of neat writing assignments-creating intelligent propaganda ourselves-creating public works for different reasons, how we wanted to spin dry the crowd etc.

My oldest niece and nephew were in school then, the beginning of the DARE program due to that daring puppet head on an alien body Nancy Reagan's slogan of 'JUST SAY NO'... I don't think there's been a larger generation of people on drugs since they started that DARE program... ya know?

My brother was routinely getting pulled over for his 'DARE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF' bumper sticker... they don't have senses of humor those psychopaths with badges...and guns.
I bought and read this book when it was new. It banished the Cold War jitters. Also Robert & Virginia Heinlein visited Russia around that time. From conversations with people they met, Virginia concluded that the Russian population wasn't even replacing itself. The life expectancy for men was maybe 60, and not many young couples were starting families.

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August 16, 1983 | Village Voice
The Threat: Inside the Soviet Military Machine. By Andrew Cockburn. Random House, $16.95.

Every rational person knows that the first use of nuclear weapons will probably not be the last use, and that the last use will probably end civilization. Yet the minimal concession to sanity embodied in a “no first use” pledge, lately much discussed in the United States, has little hope of being realized.

Apologists for militarism have convinced Congress and the electorate of a “present danger”: a vast and menacing Soviet military buildup, which has decisively tilted the global military balance in the Soviets’ favor. They argue that this buildup must be met, in the interest of peace, by a huge, economically devastating, probably unassimilable increase in American defense spending. Even liberal politicians with no real belief in (i.e., constituency for) such an increase are cowed. The Soviet “threat” is axiomatic.

In an important new book, Andrew Cockburn examines that threat in its real and mythical aspects. Besides poring over the literature, Cockburn has interviewed emigré Soviet armed forces veterans and dissident Americans within the far-flung defense-analysis community. His finding: “Anyone with an open mind who has had occasion to pay close attention to the way the Soviet military goes about its business in any particular area will usually conclude that the threat in that instance is probably misinterpreted and inflated.”

Examples of Soviet military in competence (interspersed with examples of American military incompetence) follow, in mind-boggling profusion. The Soviet T-64 tank introduced an automatic shell-loader, which tended to load gunners instead of shells. The T-64 also pioneered a 125-mm tank gun, the largest in the world, but with newly designed ammunition that neglected to take wind resistance into account, so that, according to a former Soviet tank officer, “it was an all-powerful gun, which always missed its target.”

In its fascination with ever more complex and inefficient technology, the U.S. Air Force has sponsored the B-70, the F-111, and numerous other monstrosities, which the Soviets have nevertheless slavishly imitated. “The best thing that ever came out of the F-111 program,” an air force official confided to Cockburn, “is that the damnfool Russians went out and copied it.” The Soviet Army is a Babel of Asian languages and a cauldron if ethnic tensions. Many of its members never handle a weapon, and roughly half, perform tasks which the U.S. Army does not assign manpower to or else accomplishes with a fraction of the men the Soviets require. Moreover, a fair proportion of the Soviet armed forces are incapacitated at any one time. A former Soviet lieutenant told one of Cockburn’s sources that “the time for the Americans to attack would be New Year’s Eve, because everybody was drunk and there was no one on duty.” He added: “But New Year’s Eve wasn’t that much different from any other time.”

Notwithstanding these and many other intimations of chaos, Pentagon propaganda manages to depict the Soviet military machine as a fearsome juggernaut, constantly challenging the American preeminence that alone stands between the free world and the dark night of totalitarian enslavement. A former high Pentagon official explains the interpretive principle of this “threat inflation”: “all our estimates of the military balance are based on the assumption that Murphy’s Law does not operate in the U.S.S.R.” Though usually wrong, these estimates have the overriding merit of producing the desired conclusion: eternal expenditure is the price of liberty.

Having our pockets picked is one thing; being engulfed in a war that all this mindless militarism may make inevitable is something else again—something to be up in arms about. Debunking the Soviet “threat” and other aspects of cold war mythology is probably the most useful thing we can do in the face of that very clear and present danger: American militarism. "The Threat" will help.
Quote:DARE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF
:Uni2:


<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/peace.gif" alt="Peace" title="peace" />
Quote:[quote author="the gardener"]DARE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF
:Uni2:


Lmao

he and I went to the laundrymat together one night in his truck with that bumpersticker on it... LOL my boy was still little and in his car seat.

We get pulled over by this CHP Hmm2 Hmm2 ball thing?" It came to my brother first 'YOU MEAN THE TRAILER HITCH BALL THING?"

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lmao.gif" alt="Lmao" title="lmao" />

'well uhhhmmmm uh yes, the trailer ball hitch thing'... he was generous and so very cavalier and let us go with another volley of 'uhhhhmmmms and uhhhhhs' and we continued on our way.

I got pulled over five or so years later, in the dark, alone except for my cellphone in my ear with the earpiece hanging out, husband listening to the entire bullshit-for the same reason-license plate obscured by one of those damn 'ball things'... Husband having a total fit on his end-CHP being an idiot on my end-me sitting in the dark having a minor anxiety attack about being in a dark area alone with a COP.... he got another call so after no doubt scanning my license he took off leaving me only with a warning...

and I didn't have any bumperstickers at all on that truck.
I was in the US Army from 8/72 - 1/77, so I missed out on the elementary school rituals depicted in the vid above. Personally, I think it sucks; reminds me of what dictators do to make sure they have 'adoring' crowds.

As far as drugs go, I was stationed at a SASCOM unit, and I would have to say that at least 50% of the enlisted guys there were on drugs, including missile ops folks. Sleep tight America, our brave soldiers are keeping us safe! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
Quote:I was in the US Army from 8/72 - 1/77, so I missed out on the elementary school rituals depicted in the vid above. Personally, I think it sucks; reminds me of what dictators do to make sure they have 'adoring' crowds.

As far as drugs go, I was stationed at a SASCOM unit, and I would have to say that at least 50% of the enlisted guys there were on drugs, including missile ops folks. Sleep tight America, our brave soldiers are keeping us safe! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />


Since then they started cruising drug dogs through and doing drug tests all the time. So since pot stays in you so long, guess what the drug of choice has been for a few DECADES now?

ACID! leaves your body fast-lots of NAVY acid heads... :)
Chunk B is correct about the indoctrination venues and ultra nationalism
being repetitively apparent in our recent schooling histories and the movie/TV media
that we experienced.
But I don't think this video is trivial either.

the military movie theaters I went to as a kid had lots of propaganda venues.

This video went a little further than that,
but it wasn't as bad as that one video with all the young black kids
doing march and slogan exercises that was up here a few months ago.

Indeed, I doubt that young German students are singing to the glory of Angela Merkel,
and my doubts are that Putin
has a ballad and poem about him in Moscow grade schools...Hmm2
Quote:Vianova said:
the military movie theaters I went to as a kid had lots of propaganda venues.
While I was stationed at Ft. Campbell, the on-base theaters used to play the national anthem prior to playing the scheduled movie. Well, one time one enlisted guy decided he wasn't going to stand at attention, nor even stand, when the anthem was played. It caused a BIG stir, but guess what the result was ... they stopped playing the national anthem before the movies. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/applause.gif" alt="Applause" title="applause" />
Quote:I bought and read this book when it was new. It banished the Cold War jitters. Also Robert & Virginia Heinlein visited Russia around that time. From conversations with people they met, Virginia concluded that the Russian population wasn't even replacing itself. The life expectancy for men was maybe 60, and not many young couples were starting families.

Yes, there were a few more important points in that book I believe. Now remember, during the red scare Russia was this gargantuan beast had so many Millions "Officially Listed" per each city. Duck & cover because they could send over the big ones at any moment.

If memory serves correct, Robert Heinlein was sitting on a bench near the Port and something was bugging him but he couldn't put a finger on it. Then it hits him, and he asks his wife "How many people claimed for this city?" She looks it up and tells him. He tells her "Wait a min here, THAT many people claimed and there's almost no activity here at this port? What are they feeding people, rocks?"

So, they set out to try and loose their "guides" who were of course KGB agents so they could talk with real people. Back then, the 'travel agencies' were staffed by the KGB, there were prescribed Hotels, Restaurants and Sights that had been sanitized or cleared for travel to. I think it was the second or third port they managed to hang around long enough to see that what Russia was claiming for it's population was out and out bullshit.

They boogyman hefting Nuclear Weapons aimed at the US was made of cardboard. The "cold war" was a means for any company involved in constructing Nukes, to make a killing along with shaping the US Govt anyway they saw fit.
Quote:[quote author="Samurai Jane"]I bought and read this book when it was new. It banished the Cold War jitters. Also Robert & Virginia Heinlein visited Russia around that time. From conversations with people they met, Virginia concluded that the Russian population wasn't even replacing itself. The life expectancy for men was maybe 60, and not many young couples were starting families.

Yes, there were a few more important points in that book I believe. [/quote]
Wasn't rampant alcoholism in the military one of them? I recall that they faked their nuke capability with dummy missile sites, and that they couldn't invade Europe by land because of the differing railroad track gauges.
You bet. Same as the public. Better to stay drunk then depressed.

Getting paid, staying a step ahead of the GRU, as well as the KGB, was a full time job.

Back when that book was written, they didn't have half the problems they have now. Old machinery, limited spare parts, Hospitals under such supply problems they they reuse needles, being paid with potatoes in stead of money, The Russian Mafia seems to have more power then the Military there.

That reminds me Samurai Jane, did you ever read Farnhams Freehold? if you haven't you have missed out big time!


Heinlein Photo Archive:

http://www.heinleinarchives.net/upload/ ... uctId=1194
Yep. I don't have one favorite Heinlein novel, but I reread Revolt in 2100 and Farnham's Freehold about once a year.
Farnham's Freehold <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/lol.gif" alt="Lol" title="lol" /> anyone else cast that using their own family members? Who's the 'Grace' in your family?
I saw, I listened and I wanted to puke!

NO! I will NOT pledge allegiance to a flag that does NOT represent Freedom!

Stars and Bars and Hakenkreuz only!

Up with Free America

Down with the United $nake$ of Ameriqaeda!
Quote:The same kind of stuff was going on when i was in elementary school during Reagan's tenure. We had drills about hiding under our desks in case of nuclear attacks, because everyone knows wooden school desks are a great shield against nuclear fallout. Reagan was made out to be some super hero type figure, we would watch propaganda cartoons with Uncle Sam portrayed as some giant savior of the planet.

This is nothing new. Rocky movies, the US hockey team, the WWF, etc etc, there was so much nationalistic propaganda bullshit going on in the media during the 80's, this crap with Obama doesn't even hold a candle to it.

I am not blind to Obama's faults whatsoever, but there is just so much nonsensical hype being made around such trivial matters, it really is just pointless.

Yeah, I'm not thinking this was govt. sponsored like all that horseshit back in school was. I'm suprised all of us didn't get a taste of it, it was in every school I went to - probably because Conservative parents would have thrown fits about the "commie" schools if they hadn't or some such shite. You guys never got to see the "hide under your desk when you see the bright flash" films? They were lame with a capitol LAME like Reefer Madness.

They'd have rammed the Flag Salute down out throats all the way to college if someone hadn't managed a court precedent about that time for the right to stay seated. I forget now what my issue was at the time, something like "You're going to kick me out of school if I don't stand up and talk to a piece of cloth with my hand on my heart, and say, 'Liberty and justice for all'? Where's the Liberty and Justice in that, bitches?" - I guess I felt it was risking teaching kids to take the Liberty and Justice part for granted, at the bidding of people who thought blacks got Liberty and Justice when we started hanging them instead of whipping them.

This is just probably a case of a private school teacher with a woody for the Big Man peddling it to kids who probably can't wait to fcuking get it over so they can forget all about it and have recess. Hitler Youth, it ain't.

And that's the thing about indoctrination, it's way easier to make you parrot the crap, than believe it. Unless like Miss Cali, your parents just raised you that way. "I don't want anybody indoctrinating my kids but ME dammit" I don't stand and salute much, lol.
Quote: I guess I felt it was risking teaching kids to take the Liberty and Justice part for granted, at the bidding of people who thought blacks got Liberty and Justice when we started hanging them instead of whipping them.
Whaddya mean, 'we'? Got a mouse in your pocket, have ya?
Quote:Yep. I don't have one favorite Heinlein novel, but I reread Revolt in 2100 and Farnham's Freehold about once a year.


speaking of Heinlein Scream
Quote:[video:3fx9zzym]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aqMTD5UFmU[/video:3fx9zzym]

Fuck I need to figure out a way to get my kid out of the charter and homeschool. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/stars.gif" alt="Stars" title="stars" />

What, was the Prez coming to their school?

I see nothing but kids doing what kids do at school otherwise-
This stuff has been going on a looong time.
the kids just see it as a way out of study time.
Actually the vid's kinda cute-

Imagine herding cats.
To get a group of them to do anything in unison is a feat unto itself.
Quote:Heinlein’s best-known work is the novel Stranger in a Strange Land, which many in the Laurel Canyon scene found to be hugely influential. Ed Sanders has written, in The Family, that the book “helped provide a theoretical basis for Manson’s family.” Charlie frequently used Strange Land terminology when addressing his flock and he named his first Family-born son Valentine Michael Manson, in honor of the book’s lead character.
B-b-but that was satire!
<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/scream.gif" alt="Scream" title="scream" />
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/Centenni ... obert.html
"One project Heinlein continued to work on periodically was the Mowgli satire he and Virginia had come up with in 1948. Apparently he continued to collect notes and drafts of fragments until well into 1952. He tried again in 1953, but was not satisfied with the result and shelved the project again. In 1955, he was 43,000 words into the manuscript of A Martian Named Smith, but it did not jell.

On April 5, 1958, Heinlein was again working on the Mowgli story - this time titled The Heretic - when a full-page ad appeared in the local newspaper, sponsored by the National Committee for a Sane Nuclear Policy, urging the U.S. to suspend nuclear testing unilaterally. Outraged by what they considered a major blunder in the Cold War's international brinksmanship, the Heinleins jointly prepared a responsive full-page counter-ad, whose text Heinlein preserved in Expanded Universe as "Who Are the Heirs of Patrick Henry," and encouraged others around the country to do the same. Heinlein found himself attacked by his colleagues in the science fiction community for excessive conservatism.

Following the Patrick Henry campaign, he went back to writing, but not to The Heretic. Instead, he wrote Starship Troopers, with a strong anti-communist message, and shocked the science fiction community silly.

Starship Troopers was serialized as "Starship Soldier" in The Magazine Of Fantasy And Science Fiction in October and November 1959, and the book was released by G.P. Putnam's Sons in December. Predictably, the reaction of critics has been one of spluttering indignation, but Starship Troopers does what science fiction does best when it is at its best: it challenges the reader to re-think his basic assumptions. Nor, despite the volume of noise, was Heinlein's reputation in science fiction fandom diminished: Starship Troopers won the Hugo Award at the 1960 World Science Fiction Convention, Heinlein's second.

And then Heinlein went back to work on The Heretic. This time he wrote through the huge novel, working title The Man From Mars, and finished it in spring 1960. It was 800 pages and 220,000 words (an "average" novel is about 80,000 words and 300 pages in manuscript). The Man From Mars was unlike anything Heinlein had let himself do before, an amazingly iconoclastic and complex satire of sex and religion, with clever name games and private jokes embedded in the story. It might be difficult to market - it might not sell at all.

Lurton Blassingame sent The Man From Mars manuscript first to Putnam's because they had an option on Heinlein's next novel. They wanted to publish it - but without the sex and religion. What would have been left, Heinlein pointed out, was not a publishable book. Eventually, Putnam's agreed to accept the kind of book Heinlein had written. Heinlein edited the manuscript down to 160,000 words, and it was published in 1961 as Stranger In a Strange Land.

Putnam's originally had hoped for a juvenile, so Heinlein did write a kind of off-beat juvenile for them in 1962: Podkayne Of Mars, a science-fictionalized version of his "Puddin'" girls' stories. In 1962, Stranger In a Strange Land received Heinlein's third Hugo Award.

Heinlein's next books were wild zigs for him, starting with a full-bore exploration of the sword-and-sorcery epic that was just coming back into vogue: Glory Road with a "turn" in the last hundred pages that refreshed the possibilities of the genre.

In 1963, sales of the Avon paperback issue of Stranger suddenly took off. The book had been "discovered" by what would become the "counterculture," and Heinlein found himself elected a personal guru for people he had never met."
Quote:Yeah, I'm not thinking this was govt. sponsored like all that horseshit back in school was.

Well certainly this is not govt. sponsored,
and the analogy I made with Chinese indoctrination there in China with children,
IS govt. sponsored.

Nonetheless the teacher went way too far with that parade and the Obama idolization.
It is all over the news now,
last night they even had it on Fox News with all the kids images blurred out.

Should the teacher be fired?
No, but the teacher should be more careful and directly clear with parental contact
on an exercise like this .
I think the teacher, or whoever orchestrated the charade did retire,
from what I heard in passing on the TV news.