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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_in...ndum,_2014
Quote:A referendum on whether Scotland should be an independent country will take place on Thursday, 18 September 2014.

One month away! Dance2 Time to keep a close watch for political 'shenanigans'... Whistle
I am half Scottish.
.... the good half.
I am also half Italian.
and that's the other good half.
Ha!
I am zero-percent Scottish as far as 'blood' goes (as far as I know). However, my experiences with the Scottish culture and land have made me a 'believer' in past lives. I am strongly drawn to the sound of bagpipes, have worn the western 'shirt' versions of Clan patterns most of my life, and attended Clan gatherings known as Highland Games. When I visited Scotland several times, there was a 'familiarity', although no sites stood out.

I am strongly drawn to various Neolithic sites there. Especially, all the Stone Circles (which I have had the pleasure of 'meeting'), all the way from Castlerigg near the southern Scottish border to Brodgar and Stenness in the Orkney Islands to Callanish on the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides. Oddly, I am drawn more to very ancient Scotland than the present one...
Quote:Time to keep a close watch for political 'shenanigans'

Selective BBC quoting of  opinion polls showing a majority for continued union springs readily to mind.
My first major aha of 'something's wrong' in the US voting process was in the Gore vs Bush election. Dan Rather (TV reporter) had just 'called' Florida for Gore, stating that their exit polls had shown a definite win for Gore. Shortly after, Rather had to retract his 'call' and announce that the counted votes indicated a win for Bush. He was perplexed, and obviously distressed. He seemed truly puzzled, and stated on the air that he had never seen such a discrepancy between the exit polls and the 'counted' votes. That was when I knew something was wrong.

(I believe that Rather did not know what to think because the bad guys did not 'pre-program' Florida. Their 'fixing' of the vote occurred after the real numbers came in, and they saw they would lose.)

I truly hope something similar is NOT in place in the UK... Whistle
Alba gu bràth
goshawks----"I am strongly drawn to the sound of bagpipes"

Sean Connery-- Scots celebrity
"It takes an Irishman to play the pipes"~~~~~~~~~~~'The Longest Day'

Minute 3:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHLMI3Oga1A
Mayito7777, I agree!

Fsbirdhouse, thanks for the clip! I felt the same old 'kicking in' of the heart when I heard the pipes. Something deep there...

I have been to several mini-concerts where I heard Irish Uilleann Pipes. I like them, too. They are softer and more intimate than the Scottish 'war' pipes. Probably due to more personal playing. Different moods...

I was once at the Seattle Convention Center when the Black Watch bagpipe band performed. The sound in that close space was just outstanding. I was close to jumping up and down!

At one Seattle Highland Games, they had a massed bagpipe march (all the clans). It was unbelievable. I had energy running up and down my spine... (The greater area has a lot of Scottish immigrants.)

I was at the 12th century Tulloch Castle - the oldest inhabited castle in Scotland - as part of a group, where we were piped in to dinner by the castle piper. Amazing sound, in a tight space. Loved it!

[Image: bagpipe.gif] [Image: bagpipe.gif] [Image: bagpipe.gif]
Quote:I truly hope something similar is NOT in place in the UK... Whistle

Doubt it,  UK elections have never been subject to accusation of that sort or indeed any other. Besides which suspicion of foul play could lead to serious civil unrest and sectarian repercussions. The Catholics are all for it, the Protestant unionists are all going to vote no. There are ongoing sectarian tensions in Glasgow and the issue is being left unspoken of.
There is NO more stirring military music than Pipe and Drum.

It can't be found fully intact on youtube, but one of the most stirring bit of music in a motion picture is the scene in Gunga Din when the Brits are marching into a certain ambush and slaughter and are singing 'Will ye no come back again' to pipe and drum.
http://youtu.be/GowMI4wvmU4

http://youtu.be/CKT7qxk9-pw

My father was Scottish so I am 1/2 Scottish, the first time I heard Scotland the Brave played on the bagpipes I already knew the music and I have never heard it before, my skin had goosebumps I was shaking literally when I heard the bagpipes play and a sense of love for Scotland woke up inside me, never felt so alien been in a place, I miss Scotland.

http://youtu.be/PSH0eRKq1lE

Scotland forever
Goosebumps eh? This is the one that always does it for me. A contemporary piece written for a movie by Scottish singer/songwriter Dougie MacLean. It has the bonus of some fantastic images from Edinburgh to the Isle of Skye.

The music is 'The Gael'. the movie is 'The Last of the Mohicans'. The band is The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards.

http://youtu.be/hkvmrojwrzU

ENJOY!  Dance2
This is another that gives me the goosebumps

http://youtu.be/MHTdDf7DU6A
sparks & Mayito7777: Thanks for the clips! I felt the same old 'kicking in' of the heart when I heard the pipes. I even got a little misty-eyed. As I said earlier, something deep there...
To better understand the nature of the historical English ("The auld enemy") and Scottish relationship, and the current debate, I wonder if any of you have seen the 1964 BBC docudrama 'Culloden'? Filmed in verite style with a cast of amateur actors using actual accounts and diaries of the day, it received many awards in its time.

http://youtu.be/y0efUZQANaE

Watch it to the last line, "They make a desert and call it peace."

What followed Scottish defeat at the 1746 battle was, quote, "The greatest atrocity ever created by an English army". The 'pacification' of the Highlands, the 'clearances', and the legal(?) banning of EVERYTHING it was to be a Scot, namely, language, music, poetry, the plaid (tartan), culture and history, would soon be imposed by the victor.
Naughty
Scots have long memories.
They still punished by drawing and quartering then.
Only "The Boats" was a more gruesome way to die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_boats
sparks:
Quote:The 'pacification' of the Highlands, the 'clearances', and the legal(?) banning of EVERYTHING it was to be a Scot, namely, language, music, poetry, the plaid (tartan), culture and history, would soon be imposed by the victor.

In the 90s, I was in southern Scotland with a group of Americans visiting sacred sites. We were at a small hotel in their eating facility and having a good time visiting with a local waiter. Then, a mucky-muck of some type showed up, and the waiter's whole personality changed. It was instantaneous. He became absolutely craven and subservient. I looked around at all the Americans, and every jaw had dropped. It was beyond our experience.

I have reflected on that moment (and it's implications) many times...

Quote:I wonder if any of you have seen the 1964 BBC docudrama 'Culloden'?

No, but the group I was with literally passed alongside the Culloden battle area. With my 'empathy' side, I could feel that there was still a lot of negative, painful energy at that site. Whether this was just 'residual' effects as defined by the Ghosthunter show, or actual ghosts in that area, I do not know...

(We also saw the William Wallace monument...) Dance2
Goshawks:
Quote:Then, a mucky-muck of some type showed up, and the waiter's whole personality changed.

By 'Mucky-muck' I assume you mean some 'aristo' laird of the manor type?

Billy Connolly likes to go on about the Scottish tourist board and the "singing shortbread tin" image that they present as being Scotland. (Shortbread is a traditional butter biscuit sold in tartan tins emblazoned with images of Edinburgh Castle). When you see whirling kilted Scotsmen singing "Hoots!" and "Scots how-ah! at hogmannay, and even the Scottish regiments, it is a fabrication largely created by Sir Walter Scott, agent of Queen Victoria's re-boot of the Highlands as a holiday destination.

In fact, the clan chieftans that didn't sell their souls were murdered in most horrendous ways, and the clans themselves fled around the globe in the tens of thousands to escape the genocide. Though they may speak with the Scottish Burr, contemporary Chieftans are Englishmen, awarded title and lands by the crown of England.

I agree about the energy of the culture Goshawks, but imagine that energy when it was owned by the Gaels themselves.

"Playing outlawed tunes, on outlawed pipes." (Uncle Argyle, Braveheart)

As to Culloden, a former colleague was taken to the site by her Scottish boyfriend, and was a bit upset by it. Bad vibes, no birdsong, the works, so you weren't misplaced in your feelings.

If you're ever in Edinburgh, try to visit Rosslyn Chapel, (of Davinci Code fame), seven miles outside the city, it really is an amazing place, smothered in symbolism.

I leave the last words to Mel Gibson as Willam Wallace...

"Go back to England, and tell them there, that Scotland’s daughters and her sons are yours no more. Tell them Scotland is free."
Aye ya bloody Scots got nuttin on me-
I am directly descended from McDuff (MacDhuibh) through the Weems (Wemyss) line.
Macbeth killed my 39th grandfather Duncan, and my 40th grandfather MacDuff with my 38th grandfather Malcolm killed him for it.

Quote:In fact, the clan chieftans that didn't sell their souls were murdered in most horrendous ways, and the clans themselves fled around the globe in the tens of thousands to escape the genocide. Though they may speak with the Scottish Burr, contemporary Chieftans are Englishmen, awarded title and lands by the crown of England.
True true-

Later, the Wemyss' refused to back Edward in the Bruce controversy (We named Bruce king, being that without my family's calling and support you couldn't be king in Scotland)
So he had our castles burnt- and set out to exterminate the Wemyss'
We fought at Bannockburn.
and later we fled, ending up here in my lovely Carolinas/Tennessee region where we stayed

Alba gu bràth indeed

[sub][sup]Shit! there I go sounding like that AA idiot, but at least mines for rea[/sup][/sub]l
[url=http://http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/sco...land-visit

It seems other issues are being kept out of the media. There are rumours that the Clair Ridge oil field off the Shetland Islands is holding far more oil than previously anticipated. Apparently David Cameron has visited the oil rig without media escort and the crew have been sent on paid leave for a month with no explanation.
A big find would of course boost an independent Scotland's finances so the theory is the government want the lid kept on it until after the referendum in case it encourages people to vote yes.
I personally know quite a few of the Pipers in the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards, they are based here (Bad Fallingbostel, North Germany) until next year. There are some truly amazing talents in the Regiment.

I am half Scottish, my Mother came from Glasgow (Garngad) and I believe that an Independant Scotland would fare well. The Scots are often portraid as tightfisted, but this is not true, it was English measures that caused widescale poverty in Scotland, causing them  to be canny with their money, nothing more, nothing less.

If the truth were to be told, the Scots would be far more affluent without the rest of Britain. Oil, Gas, Water, and my personal favorite, Whisky.
sparks:
Quote:If you're ever in Edinburgh, try to visit Rosslyn Chapel, (of Davinci Code fame), seven miles outside the city, it really is an amazing place, smothered in symbolism.

You're right about Rosslyn Chapel! I visited it four separate times with a 'sacred places' tour group, before The DaVinci Code came out. Two visits were before they investigated the catacombs under the church, once during the process, and once after the process. The movie is interesting, because they do NOT show the real 'initiation chamber' down the steps from the main chapel. There is also a smaller chamber off of the 'initiation chamber' that looks like a 'props storage' room (back left, as viewed from the stairs). This may have been because of problems gaining permission from the church authorities who own the chapel now, or may be part of the Templar/Freemason unity underlying the whole area. Incidentally, the hard (granite?) stairs leading down to the 'initiation chamber' were highly worn. They reminded me of the wear on the stairway leading up to the Acropolis in Athens. Seriously, what kind of traffic would cause that kind of wear in a tiny chapel in the backwaters of Scotland? Remember, this is pre- The DaVinci Code.

(Tidbit: The genetic modification firm that created Dolly the sheep is in Rosslyn. I physically stood at Rosslyn Chapel's door, walked through the village, and stood at the entrance driveway to the firm. Just a relatively short distance. Makes one wonder why a major firm like that would be sited at Rosslyn...) Whistle

I did try to get down the steps from the main chapel to the 'initiation chamber' when they were "replacing the steps", supposedly for safety reasons. Right. The steps were just coincidentally in the perfect place to 'break into' the catacombs under the church. Unfortunately, I caught the attention of a 'gatekeeper' and was promptly ordered basically not to try it. I wish now that I had 'plotted' with a compatriot to have her distract him...

The final trip was after everything was back in order. Heavy new steps were now in place. They had also removed the ancient, prone-knight memorial 'statue' that was there. (St. Clair?) Interestingly, they had installed floodlights on the 'initiation chamber' wall above the steps so that - once you were in the chamber and looked back at the steps - the floodlights washed out your detail-vision of the steps. Just a coincidence, I expect...

What I most dislike about the ransacking of the catacombs was/is the secrecy involved. In addition to all the Templar/Freemason hoopla, there was/is Real History involved. I know it is naive, but I believe Mankind has a 'right' to that history. Hi

-------------

Segue: Back in 1998 and 1999, I visited the Orkney Islands, north of Scotland. (There are several 'active' stone circles on the main island, including Stennis and Brodgar.) What I found interesting was that the relatively tiny 'fishing village' that was/is the main port of that island has a finely-built, around-one-third-of-Notre-Dame-scale stone church. It is sooo out of scale for that town that it is hard not to notice. But, I saw few visitors to this 'wonder'. Inside, there are many tombs, or at least memorial stones, and the vast majority have known Templar/Freemason symbols on them. Given that this area was a probable 'home port' of Henry Sinclair's exploration fleet, I do wonder about all the connections, seeing that the St.Clair (Sinclair) family also built Rosslyn Chapel. Much suppressed, or at least minimized, history in these parts... Hmm2

-------------

Keith:
Thanks for the family history! I have read that Templar knights on horseback basically 'saved the day' for Bruce at Bannockburn. Do you have any info on that that will not get you 'horizontalized'? Whistle
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/politic...apses.html
Scots to vote for independence as no vote collapses?
Quote:A vote for independence in Scotland could have major implications for Northern Ireland as the break up of the United Kingdom would mean that Northern Irish unionists would face far greater uncertainty as to their constitutional position.

The Irish Times reports that the latest YouGuv opinion poll suggests the gap between the yes and no sides is at its lowest ever.


Politicians from Northern Ireland have campaigned for both sides in Scotland, keenly aware of the implications for the North.

The new opinion poll shows support to stay within the United Kingdom at 53 percent, the lowest figure yet in YouGuv polls with 47 percent in favor of independence.

The paper suggests the new figures mean that the referendum will go down to the wire.

These new figures indicate a major drop in support for the No campaign which had enjoyed 62 percent of the vote in the last poll with the Yes side on 39 percent
I'm also half Scottish.

My Scottish Mum met my Scouse Dad when they were both holidaying on the Isle of Man.

Somehow he persuaded her to come down from Hamilton to Liverpool and marry him.

Unlike most of you I dread the prospect of Scottish independence.

Overnight most of my living relatives would suddenly become foreigners and we'll have far less in common to talk about.

I might need a passport to do something as simple as going to a relative's funeral or wedding.

Because of my mixed English, Scottish, Irish and American ancestry I've always been happy in my British identity. I've always opposed petty English, Scottish and Welsh nationalisms because they divide people rather than unite them.

I've lived 57 years living in a country called Great Britain and on the 19th of September it might not exist anymore.

What's worse, after a long career in economics, I believe that Scotland will find it hard to prosper economically if it goes it alone.

*******

On another note. It is not normally my policy to criticise other posters on forums, but the anti-English racism of some of the posters to this thread is utterly disgusting and based on ignorant stereotyping and myths about Britain's history.

.... And for the benefit of The Watcher: most Scots were poor for the same reason that most people living in England and Wales were poor.

It was only after the Second World War that Britain's economic output per person became great enough for most people on the island to enjoy an acceptable standard of living - and for the state to provide a really decent welfare state. Even Sweden took decades to create a decent welfare state, it was so poor in the 1930s.

My Liverpool grandfather didn't have a pair shoes to call his own until he was 14 and often went about the streets barefoot in his childhood - not much fun if you're acquainted with the Liverpool weather.

So the idea that there was some "English" plot to keep the Scots poor is the most lame brained conspiracy theory I've heard in a long time. Wouldn't Scottish voters have had something to say about such obvious discrimination?

I'm just at a complete loss to understand who some of you think the people living in England, Scotland and Wales actually are and what life is like on this island.

Rant over. You can flame back if you want to.

Bob.


Quote: but the anti-English racism of some of the posters to this thread
Quote:You can flame back if you want to.
Horsepoop

if you joined this forum to agitate members
you joined the wrong forum
Naughty

if you don't like the pipes
:thwack:

and I remind you
you joined HM
not the other way around
Dance2

so save the  Horsepoop
for your local mates.
Coffee2
You know very little about Scottish history if you think that for one minute i was making up what i wrote.

As for the personal insults, fine, fire away, I have become used to it in this debate.

I am the Son of an Englishman who joined the Army at 19, and left at 55, during which time he served all over the World, and as his child I spent more of my life abroad than in the UK. I have lived in Germany, and worked for the Army for almost all my adult life. I left service with them last year, and now work on the German net, I did so, because I have no wish to return to England, you posted

Overnight most of my living relatives would suddenly become foreigners and we'll have far less in common to talk about.

I was last in the UK in 2005 when my Mother was dying, and most of the people I saw there were, for me, foreigners, large parts of Bolton, where my parents both lived after my Fathers time in the Army, were >90% Asien, and large portions of the community spoke no english, whether because they couldn´t, or because they chose not to, I cannot say. So, for the want of it, I could have been in Pakistan/India/Sri Lanka etc.

Britain, and the buffoons running it in London, have become a laughing stock. Where is the once great nation, where hard work, honesty and politeness were valued? Now all i see are drunks, benefits scroungers etc.

My friends call Brits "the fuckies" because every second word is....

All in all, I hope that Scotland does vote yes, for it will be a better Scotland on its own, with more than enough revenue, oil, gas, silicon glen etc.
All the sabre rattling Camoron is doing, and what is he going to fight it with

http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/news...456150.ece

36 Tanks left, and of the rest, most have been canibilised to make those 36 battle ready, the same goes for the Warrior fleet.

Did you know that whilst training for Iraq, there was an allotment of 5 rounds per man for training on the 50 cal.

Bob-Wonderland:
Quote:I might need a passport to do something as simple as going to a relative's funeral or wedding.

My hope is, if Scottish independence does go through, that there is some political sanity after that. It would be quite easy to pass some form of political arrangement that did away with border enforcement, internal-to-Isles passport checks, etc. That was the way US-Canada relations were until the Neocons stirred up the world. The same with military bases. If they were not British-bases-in-Scotland but joint bases, there might be no need to rebuild to the south. Joint defense.

Same with so many things. Sanity could rule... Dunno
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politi...ll-4177182

The latest opinion poll puts the pro-independence faction !% ahead.
I'm not trying to agitate anybody, believe it or not.

I'm just trying to point out that racial prejudice is a very evil thing - and there appeared to be quite a lot of unthinking prejudice against people living in England being spouted in the thread.

Shouldn't we all stand up and say something when we think we're hearing bigotry and prejudice? When prejudice is tolerated it eventually leads to enmity, injustice and violence. That is the lesson of history.

However, if this particular thread is only intended for pro-independence comments then I will now voluntarily leave the thread permanently.

Bob.
Quote:I'm just trying to point out that racial prejudice is a very evil thing - and there appeared to be quite a lot of unthinking prejudice against people living in England being spouted in the thread.

I haven't noticed any racial prejudice, unthinking or not, being posted on this thread at all. You might find English/Scottish/Welsh nationalism divisive but that's missing the point, UK is a divided country and there are tensions between England and the Celtic nations. Opposing divisiveness is just being a unionist by default.
You haven't paid any attention to what's been posted nor to the issues involved, why leave it at just staying off the thread when you could get off the site altogether?
Interesting Comment about political shenanigans:
http://www.zippittydodah.com/2014/09/fee...8629389362

insiam, September 08, 2014 1:21:00 PM
Quote:    It is very revealing to watch the leading sociopaths in England squirming and sweating at the ever approaching likelihood of Scottish independence.

    Milliaband has said 'we will need to line the border with soldiers' - hehe. Cameron has said 'Scotland will leave it self vulnerable to terrorist attacks' - hehehe. Osbourne has said 'Scots' bank savings accounts will be at risk' hehehehehe.

    The biggest hehe is that the more BS they put out, the stronger the yes vote gets.

    We certainly have entered the age of Aquarius.

    Vote Yes !!!!

    PS on a side note. The UK MSM are very much aware that there is a great political awakening, and they are wiping whole sections of comments from news articles when they lose control of the meme.

    "There is one thing stronger than all the armies in the world, and that is an idea whose time as come".
    Victor Hugo
Whistle
LOL, my my.
Bob you are perfectly entitled to be anti anything you damn well want, even anti-anti

Muaha
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