Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Archaeologists Believe They Found Location Where Jesus Christ Taught
#1
Archaeologists Believe They Found Location Where Jesus Christ Taught Mellow

Dec 24, 2014, 10:09 AM ETBy LAMA HASAN via GOOD MORNING AMERICA

Quote:Archaeologists in Israel believe they may have uncovered the location where Jesus Christ taught and preached.

The discovery was made in the ancient town of Magdala -- thought to be the hometown of Mary Magdalene -- on the western shore of the sea of Galilee.

Jesus is believed to have spent most of his life in the area.

Archaeologists Find Clues to Viking Mystery
Rome's Rich Past Stalls Metro Line Expansion
War-Zone Archaeologists Saving Babylon
The Legionaries of Christ, a Catholic organization, bought land in the area, planning to build a hotel. An ancient temple was uncovered among the ruins in 2009.

Five years later, archaeologists are convinced that Jesus taught here, with relics seeming to support that theory. Among the historic treasures are a main hall with an elaborate mosaic floor; a limestone block carved with a menorah, the oldest ever found on stone; and Jewish ritual baths.

Father Juan Solana, founder of the Magdala Center, a spiritual center run by the Legionaries of Christ, said Jesus’ interactions in the area bolster the possibility that he taught at the site.

“Jesus was traveling many times with the boat, the fishermen and for sure I think he taught in that synagogue,” Solana said. “We can see Jesus surrounded by the people sitting on the benches of the synagogue, reading the Torah.”

Some of the artifacts were taken for the pope to see, the archaeologists said.

Work continues at the site, with 12 acres of the ancient city left to excavate.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/arch...d=27811605
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#2
I'm more interested in hearing what they've found under where he died.
If the Ark of the Covenant is still there, it will be the greatest archeological discovery in history.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#3
did you know... speaking of that particular place and what happened there...

David beheaded Goliath remember?
You know that Goliath represented the old world, the seed of the serpent, anakim- bulls of Bashan etc.

well, guess where that hill got its name?
because that's where David buried his head.

When Christ was put on the cross, the blood dripped down the cross, into the ground, and onto this skull
further fulfilling prophecy. The bruised heel crushed the head of the serpent in a final physical act.
Then he went and opened the doors to the prison, and crushed it entirely.

Iron Man's my hero, this is one of the many reasons why
On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
#4
fsb do you mean Golgotha in Jerusalem?

Or his alledged tomb? Dunno

Keith Do You refer to Golgotha and NOT migdal? Dunno

What is in the cornerstone @ Migdal??? Hmm2

Paul Revere's 1795 time capsule unearthed
By Kevin Conlon, CNN
updated 8:45 PM EST, Fri December 12, 2014
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/11/us/boston-...?hpt=hp_c2
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#5
Golgotha.
His blood finding it's way to a cavern some feet below to finish the act of atonement by sprinkling the Mercy seat.
Blood itself might not have gone the 10-20 feet thru the rocks, coagulating before it could seep down in cracks and fissures. But the Roman spear in His side caused water and blood to come out together, thinning all the blood enough to fulfill that final act.
Sure would like to see the Israeli gov bring it out into the light of day. 
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#6
oh, i don't think it literally had to penetrate anything or actually touch it, the symbology is quite enough

On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
#7
(12-28-2014, 11:38 AM)Keith link Wrote:oh, i don't think it literally had to penetrate anything or actually touch it, the symbology is quite enough

Hmm2 I think all the other ' prefigured types' were fulfilled in fact. Why not the final one?

I do not believe Ron Wyatt's account of it's discovery to be factual, but I've seen/heard other rumors that it was located by several men at once. I suspect the possibility of the Israeli government having already secured it. They are strangely quiet about the rumors. Neither confirming or denying them.
The implications of such a discovery would be enormous for Israel.
Not that it would make them invincible in battle or any such thing (It didn't always you may recall), but many an age old question would be answered, and if in the reported location, a renewed and very intense debate about the Messiah.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#8
more on topic, it would be cool to see where Jesus taught.

I don't know about wyatt, but do know the Golgotha story wasn't invented by him
On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
#9
This is an unfamiliar story to me.


Why would the Ark of the Covenant be located beneath where Christ was
crucified? Why wouldn't it have been hidden beneath the temple mount where
there were (and remains to be) many hidden chambers?

There was no love between the High Priests and Jesus. So it doesn't make
any sense that they would then bury the Ark outside the confines of what
they controlled so tightly, the Temple area itself. Wyatt's site is even
outside of the city walls at that time.


"The last time the Ark of the Covenant is mentioned in Scripture was when
King Josiah (in 623 B.C.) ordered the Ark to be put back in the Temple (2
Chron. 35.3). From this we understand that during the reign of wicked
kings, the priests would have taken the Ark out of the Temple and hidden
it away somewhere."

From:

The Ark of the Covenant - Associates for Biblical Research

www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/06/The-Ark-of-the-Covenant.aspx

"The rebuilt Second Temple stood on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during
the Second Temple period, between 516 BCE and 70 CE."

"Since some of the original artifacts were, according to the biblical
account, lost after the destruction of the First Temple, the Second Temple
lacked the following holy articles:

    The Ark of the Covenant containing the Tablets of Stone, before which
    were placed the pot of manna and Aaron's rod

    The Urim and Thummim (divination objects contained in the Hoshen)

    The holy oil

    The sacred fire."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

So sometime between 623 BC and 516 BCE, it was lost, destroyed or simply
hidden.


Secondly, if it did exist there (below the crucifixon site), it now
would be a part of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which I don't think
is controlled by the Israeli Gov.

Assuming all that follows is true....

"The traditional location of Golgotha derives from its identification by
Helena, the mother of Constantine I, in 325. A few yards nearby, Helena
also identified the location of the Tomb of Jesus and claimed to have
discovered the True Cross; her son, Constantine, then built the Church of
the Holy Sepulchre around the whole site. In 333, the Pilgrim of Bordeaux,
entering from the east described the result:"

"On the left hand is the little hill of Golgotha where the Lord was
crucified. About a stone's throw from thence is a vault [crypta] wherein
his body was laid, and rose again on the third day. There, at present, by
the command of the Emperor Constantine, has been built a basilica; that is
to say, a church of wondrous beauty."

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary

So either the above is true, the church is literally built over both the
crucifixion site and a nearby tomb, which may or may not be the actual
tomb of Christ referenced in the Bible, or the entire assumption of the
location is false or the story of the location is a lie to bolster the reputation of Constantine.


My bet continues to be on the Knight's Templar who did extensive
exploration in, around and under the Temple Mount site.

Finding such artifacts would have explained their meteoric rise to power
and subsequent supposed destruction by the Church.

It is possible that whatever they found was such a threat to the Church
that they were given free reign until they became so powerful that even
the fear of exposure would not hold back eventual retribution.

They had a vast maritime fleet and could have easily spirited all the
artifacts along with most of their accumulated treasure elsewhere in the
world.

Dunno

Just another way of looking at things.






Mellow
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.<br />Aldous Huxley
Reply
#10
They are Israeli archaeologists.
If they found / find the arc ... it goes in a secure warehouse,
with not even a peek-a-boo mentioned in the news,
would be my guess.

note this as well:
Quote:Work continues at the site, with 12 acres of the ancient city left to excavate.


Related in another way and probably posted here before:
http://www.icr.org/article/has-archaeolo...n-discove/
Quote:The new artifact is an ossuary,
a medium-sized box in which human bones were placed for permanent burial
after the flesh had all decayed away.
This practice was employed for only a brief period of time
from about B.C. 20 to A.D. 70.
The box is made of a soft, chalky, limestone, common to the area.
The contents have long since vanished.

Most remarkably, an inscription has been etched into the side which reads,
"James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus"
in the Aramaic script of the time.
Careful studies, including scrutiny under a scanning electron microscope
show the inscription to be genuine.
The patina, or oxidized surface equally covers both box and the interior of the etched letters. The recognized expert on such matters,
Dr. Andre Lemaire, concludes:
"I am pleased to report that in my judgment it is genuinely ancient and not a fake."

All three names used were common in that era,
but seldom was the deceased's brother mentioned,
unless that brother was noteworthy.
To have all three listed,
in correct Biblical relationship certainly supports the possibility
of this being the ossuary of the Biblical James.
Reply
#11
That is awesome as well.
James is another favorite and inspiring character. He said
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.



This actually works. lol
On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
#12
(12-28-2014, 10:00 PM)alemos link Wrote:This is an unfamiliar story to me.


Why would the Ark of the Covenant be located beneath where Christ was
crucified? Why wouldn't it have been hidden beneath the temple mount where
there were (and remains to be) many hidden chambers?

There was no love between the High Priests and Jesus. So it doesn't make
any sense that they would then bury the Ark outside the confines of what
they controlled so tightly, the Temple area itself. Wyatt's site is even
outside of the city walls at that time.


"The last time the Ark of the Covenant is mentioned in Scripture was when
King Josiah (in 623 B.C.) ordered the Ark to be put back in the Temple (2
Chron. 35.3). From this we understand that during the reign of wicked
kings, the priests would have taken the Ark out of the Temple and hidden
it away somewhere."

From:

The Ark of the Covenant - Associates for Biblical Research

www.biblearchaeology.org/post/2006/06/The-Ark-of-the-Covenant.aspx

"The rebuilt Second Temple stood on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem during
the Second Temple period, between 516 BCE and 70 CE."

"Since some of the original artifacts were, according to the biblical
account, lost after the destruction of the First Temple, the Second Temple
lacked the following holy articles:

    The Ark of the Covenant containing the Tablets of Stone, before which
    were placed the pot of manna and Aaron's rod

    The Urim and Thummim (divination objects contained in the Hoshen)

    The holy oil

    The sacred fire."

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Temple

So sometime between 623 BC and 516 BCE, it was lost, destroyed or simply
hidden.


Secondly, if it did exist there (below the crucifixon site), it now
would be a part of the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, which I don't think
is controlled by the Israeli Gov.

Assuming all that follows is true....

"The traditional location of Golgotha derives from its identification by
Helena, the mother of Constantine I, in 325. A few yards nearby, Helena
also identified the location of the Tomb of Jesus and claimed to have
discovered the True Cross; her son, Constantine, then built the Church of
the Holy Sepulchre around the whole site. In 333, the Pilgrim of Bordeaux,
entering from the east described the result:"

"On the left hand is the little hill of Golgotha where the Lord was
crucified. About a stone's throw from thence is a vault [crypta] wherein
his body was laid, and rose again on the third day. There, at present, by
the command of the Emperor Constantine, has been built a basilica; that is
to say, a church of wondrous beauty."

From:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvary

So either the above is true, the church is literally built over both the
crucifixion site and a nearby tomb, which may or may not be the actual
tomb of Christ referenced in the Bible, or the entire assumption of the
location is false or the story of the location is a lie to bolster the reputation of Constantine.


My bet continues to be on the Knight's Templar who did extensive
exploration in, around and under the Temple Mount site.

Finding such artifacts would have explained their meteoric rise to power
and subsequent supposed destruction by the Church.

It is possible that whatever they found was such a threat to the Church
that they were given free reign until they became so powerful that even
the fear of exposure would not hold back eventual retribution.

They had a vast maritime fleet and could have easily spirited all the
artifacts along with most of their accumulated treasure elsewhere in the
world.

Dunno

Just another way of looking at things.






Mellow

Well,
I think we see a prefiguring/ shadow of things to come about the mission of Jesus on earth in much of the Torah.
All the old system of sacrifice instituted thru Moses were but a type of His (Jesus) ultimate sacrifice on earth to come.
As the High priest entered the Holy chamber once a year in the tabernacle to sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice on the Mercy Seat to atone for the nation's sins, we see the sacrifice itself not being the end of atonement, but that sprinkling of the blood on the Mercy Seat being a very solemn, and critically important event. One that had to be done in an exactly prescribed manner. Even the earthly high priest could lose his life if he entered the secret chamber without being properly prepared.
So many things pointing to Christ in the Old Testament. And, in such interesting ways too!
From the translation of names of the Patriarchs from Adam to Noah.
Abraham being called on to sacrifice Isaac.
The passover bread still used to this day from Israel's great deliverance from Egypt is striped and pierced.
The very bread Christ called his body at the last supper was this same.
[Image: Matsobread-1.jpg]
The gigantic blazing cross Israel was given instructions to erect wherever they camped in the desert.
(In the strictest, most literal interpretation of those directions)
http://www.ldolphin.org/camp.html

Many other examples. Most interesting stuff.
Most precise, and so I believe the final act of atonement was carried out just as precisely.
Many believe the priests hid the Ark at the time the Babylonians sacked Jerusalem. Were they unknowingly moved to place it where it would need to be those centuries later? Could be?
But is the Ark still there? Hmm2

Revelation11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple the ark of of His testament: and there were lightenings, and voices, and thunderings , and an earthquake, and great hail.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#13
What would Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh, and Henry Lincoln
have to say about how the 12 apostles had a dim view of the future bride to be?

Will this be catharic to rome?

A guy who says "render unto ceasar" also "overturns tables".

I believe in the Magdelene.

I believe she was Jesus' Wife.

I believe he had offspring.

but what the hell do I know. Rofl

Dig this  Dance2 interlude  Reefer  while we await more evidence at this dig.

The apostles did not know Mary Magdelene like Jesus knew her.

Maybe their is a bad reign in rome.
Maybe Mary wasn't all too bad after all to begin with. Mellow

https://www.youtube.com/v/beWzKdYLSvA

I like archaeological Jesus.
It would be the most universally accepted story if backed by science.
The Jesus Family. Mellow
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#14
Sum times Eye wonder... Hmm2

Being a "Marked" Man even before birth by Prohesy and a Moving Star.

And Assuming the Slaughter of the innocents by herod ended from the mouth of babes.

Jesus was on a hidden mission.

Did Judas really Rat him out?

"They" were always on the lookout for him anyways... [glow=red,2,300]APB[/glow] on [glow=red,2,300]The Word[/glow]

Judas can't rat out a Glorious Light.

He Blinded Them with being dull when attempted to being viewed directly.

So Brilliantly everpresent that they were annoyed by the "Glare" and looked elsewhere.

Judas is a literary tool.

No one ever needed to see his face but you knew exactly who he was when you saw him work.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#15
We need:

The JESUS talk.

Personally Eye despise dogma.

In this thread you are free to char Devil lie heb do or Char  Devil lie Manson.

I am NOT "Jones"-ing for Koolaid Old School.

While The Artifacts get unearthed  as this thread progresses.

Free speech encompasses all our guesses. Mellow

He even asked:
"Who do YOU say I Am?

Migdal Rises as Rome falls again but I'll wait for the in-situ Proffesors to explain.

All roads lead to Rome...But itz not my destination.

She's a bedecked whore or see a checked floor...
I can't deny the Magdelene anymore.

[flash=666,444]https://www.youtube.com/v/30EZkCvsCQ0[/flash]

It Works on so many levels that I need a ladder.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#16
Whomever Jesus was we don't have scientific evidence of him that is not contested by scholars as of yet.

But Don't "Kid Yourself" Devil

There is evidence of a creator. Mellow

There would be No School and No Students and No Magdelene with No Jesus to teach to them.

[move]"Such extreme fine-tuning supports the anthropic view of our Universe,..."[/move]

New evidence for anthropic theory that fundamental physics constants underlie life-enabling universe

Jan 16, 2015

[Image: newevidencef.jpg]
Graphical representation of the question of how fine-tuned life on Earth is under variations of the average light quark mass and ?_{EM}. Image courtesy of Dean Lee. Credit: Science China Press

Quote:For nearly half a century, theoretical physicists have made a series of discoveries that certain constants in fundamental physics seem extraordinarily fine-tuned to allow for the emergence of a life-enabling universe. Constants that crisscross the Standard Model of Particle Physics guided the formation of hydrogen nuclei during the Big Bang, along with the carbon and oxygen atoms initially fused at the center of massive first-generation stars that exploded as supernovae; these processes in turn set the stage for solar systems and planets capable of supporting carbon-based life dependent on water and oxygen.

The theory that an Anthropic Principle guided the physics and evolution of the universe was initially proposed by Brandon Carter while he was a post-doctoral researcher in astrophysics at the University of Cambridge; this theory was later debated by Cambridge scholar Stephen Hawking and a widening web of physicists around the world.

German scholar Ulf-G Meißner, chair in theoretical nuclear physics at the Helmholtz Institute, University of Bonn, adds to a series of discoveries that support this Anthropic Principle.

In a new study titled "Anthropic considerations in nuclear physics" and published in the Beijing-based journal Science Bulletin (previously titled Chinese Science Bulletin), Professor Meißner provides an overview of the Anthropic Principle (AP) in astrophysics and particle physics and states: "One can indeed perform physics tests of this rather abstract [AP] statement for specific processes like element generation."

"This can be done with the help of high performance computers that allow us to simulate worlds in which the fundamental parameters underlying nuclear physics take values different from the ones in Nature," he explains.

"Specific physics problems we want to address, namely how sensitive the generation of the light elements in the Big Bang is to changes in the light quark mass m_q and also, how robust the resonance condition in the triple alpha process, i.e. the closeness of the so-called Hoyle state to the energy of 4He+8Be, is under variations in m_q and the electromagnetic fine structure constant ?_{EM}," he adds.

Brandon Carter initially posited the theory: "The universe (and hence the fundamental parameters on which it depends) must be such as to admit the creation of observers within it at some stage."

Stephen Hawking, expert on the Big Bang and cosmic inflation, extended the dialogue on the Anthropic Principle in a series of papers and books. In "A Brief History of Time," he outlines an array of astrophysics phenomena and constants that seem to support the AP theory, and asks: "Why did the universe start out with so nearly the critical rate of expansion that separates models that recollapse from those that go on expanding forever, that even now, ten thousand million years later, it is still expanding at nearly the critical rate?"

"If the rate of expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million," he explains, "the universe would have recollapsed before it ever reached its present size."

Professor Ulf-G Meißner, in explaining his new groundbreaking study, states: "The Universe we live in is characterized by certain parameters that take specific values that appear to be remarkably fine-tuned to make life, including on Earth, possible. "

"For example, the age of the Universe must be large enough to allow for the formation of galaxies, stars and planets, and for second- and third-generation stars that incorporated the carbon and oxygen propagated by earlier exploding stars," he says.

"On more microscopic scales, he adds, "certain fundamental parameters of the Standard Model of light quark masses or the electromagnetic fine structure constant must take values that allow for the formation of neutrons, protons and atomic nuclei."

And while the Big Bang Nucleosynthesis gave rise to hydrogen nuclei and alpha particles (4He nuclei), elements widely regarded as essential to life including carbon and oxygen were only produced later, inside massive stars that burned bright and died quickly, some through a supernova explosion that spread these elements to later generations of star systems.

In one series of experiments involving intricate computer simulations on JUQUUEN at Forschungszentrum Jülich, Professor Meißner and his colleagues altered the values of light quark masses from those found in Nature to determine how great a variation would prevent the formation of carbon or oxygen inside massive stars. "Variations in the light quark masses of up to 2-3 percent are unlikely to be catastrophic to the formation of life-essential carbon and oxygen," he concludes. (please see Figure 1)

And earlier, during the Big Bang's generation of the nuclei of first two elements in the Periodic Table, he notes, "From the observed element abundances and the fact that the free neutron decays in about 882 seconds and the surviving neutrons are mostly captured in 4He, one finds a stringent bound on the light quark mass variations ... under the reasonable assumption that the masses of all quarks and leptons appearing in neutron ?-decay scale with the Higgs vacuum expectation value."

"Thus," Professor Meißner states, "the Big Bang Nucleosynthesis sets indeed very tight limits on the variations of the light quark mass."

"Such extreme fine-tuning supports the anthropic view of our Universe," he adds.

"Clearly, one can think of many universes, the multiverse, in which various fundamental parameters take different values leading to environments very different from ours," Professor Meißner states.

Professor Stephen Hawking states that even slight alterations in the life-enabling constants of fundamental physics in this hypothesized multiverse could "give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

Professor Meißner agrees: "In that sense," he says, "our Universe has a preferred status, and this is the basis of the so-called Anthropic Principle."


Explore further: Variables of nature

More information: Meißner, U. "Anthropic considerations in nuclear physics" Science Bulletin, 2015, 60(1) : 43-54. link.springer.com/article/10.1… %2Fs11434-014-0670-2

Journal reference: Chinese Science Bulletin 

Provided by Science China Press
http://phys.org/news/2015-01-evidence-an...tml#ajTabs

"The universe (and hence the fundamental parameters on which it depends) must be such as to [b]admit the creation of observers within it at some stage."
[/b]

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#17
If Jesus is the alpha omega child central to creations outcome...God literally "Kids Himself" Rofl

God is a funny dude. Reefer

"Clearly, one can think of many universes, the multiverse, in which various fundamental parameters take different values leading to environments very different from ours," Professor Meißner states.

Professor Stephen Hawking states that even slight alterations in the life-enabling constants of fundamental physics in this hypothesized multiverse could "give rise to universes that, although they might be very beautiful, would contain no one able to wonder at that beauty."

Professor Meißner agrees: "In that sense," he says, "our Universe has a preferred status, and this is the basis of the so-called Anthropic Principle."


Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#18
Although the first-century gospel fragment is small, the text will provide clues as to whether the Gospel of Mark changed over time, Evans said.


Mummy Mask May Reveal Oldest Known Gospel

by Owen Jarus  |  January 18, 2015 04:21am ET

[Image: mummy-mask-150118.jpg?1421572553]
This mummy mask was one of the masks that the researchers took apart to reveal ancient papyri. This mummy mask is similar to the one that contained the first century gospel fragment.
Credit: Courtesy of Prof. Craig Evans


Quote:A text that may be the oldest copy of a gospel known to exist — a fragment of the Gospel of Mark that was written during the first century, before the year 90 — is set to be published.

At present, the oldest surviving copies of the gospel texts date to the second century (the years 101 to 200).

This first-century gospel fragment was written on a sheet of papyrus that was later reused to create a mask that was worn by a mummy. Although the mummies of Egyptian pharaohs wore masks made of gold, ordinary people had to settle for masks made out of papyrus (or linen), paint and glue. Given how expensive papyrus was, people often had to reuse sheets that already had writing on them. 

In recent years scientists have developed a technique that allows the glue of mummy masks to be undone without harming the ink on the paper. The text on the sheets can then be read.

The first-century gospel is one of hundreds of new texts that a team of about three-dozen scientists and scholars is working to uncover, and analyze, by using this technique of ungluing the masks, said Craig Evans, a professor of New Testament studies at Acadia Divinity College in Wolfville, Nova Scotia.

"We're recovering ancient documents from the first, second and third centuries. Not just Christian documents, not just biblical documents, but classical Greek texts, business papers, various mundane papers, personal letters," Evans told Live Science. The documents include philosophical texts and copies of stories by the Greek poet Homer. [See Images of Early Christian Inscriptions and Artifacts]

The business and personal letters sometimes have dates on them, he said. When the glue was dissolved, the researchers dated the first-century gospel in part by analyzing the other documents found in the same mask.

One drawback to the process is that the mummy mask is destroyed, and so scholars in the field are debating whether that particular method should be used to reveal the texts they contain.

But Evans emphasized that the masks that are being destroyed to reveal the new texts are not high quality ones that would be displayed in a museum. Some are not masks at all but are simply pieces of cartonnage.

Evans told Live Science, "We're not talking about the destruction of any museum-quality piece."

The technique is bringing many new texts to light, Evans noted. "From a single mask, it's not strange to recover a couple dozen or even more" new texts, he told Live Science. "We're going to end up with many hundreds of papyri when the work is done, if not thousands."

Debate

Scholars who work on the project have to sign a nondisclosure agreement that limits what they can say publicly. There are several reasons for this agreement. One is that some of the owners of these masks simply do not want to be made known, Evans said. "The scholars who are working on this project have to honor the request of the museums, universities, private owners, so forth."

The owners of the mummy masks retain ownership of the papyrus sheets after the glue on them is dissolved.

Evans said that the only reason he can talk about the first-century gospel before it is published is because a member of the team leaked some of the information in 2012. Evans was careful to say that he is not telling Live Science anything about the first-century gospel that hasn't already been leaked online.

Soon after the 2012 leak, speculation surrounded the methods that the scholars used to figure out the gospel's age.

Evans says that the text was dated through a combination of carbon-14 dating, studying the handwriting on the fragment and studying the other documents found along with the gospel. These considerations led the researchers to conclude that the fragment was written before the year 90. With the nondisclosure agreement in place, Evans said that he can't say much more about the text's date until the papyrus is published.

Destruction of mummy masks

The process that is used to obtain the papyri, which involves the destruction of the mummy masks, has also generated debate. For instance, archaeologist Paul Barford, who writes about collecting and heritage issues, has written a scathing blog post criticizing the work on the gospel.

Roberta Mazza, a lecturer in Classics and Ancient History at the University of Manchester, has blogged her concerns about the text as has Brice Jones, a doctoral candidate in religion at Concordia University.

When the texts are published the debate is likely to move beyond the blogosphere and into mainstream media and scholarly journals.

Biblical clues

Although the first-century gospel fragment is small, the text will provide clues as to whether the Gospel of Mark changed over time, Evans said.

His own research is focused on analyzing the mummy mask texts, to try to determine how long people held onto them before disposing or reusing them. This can yield valuable information about how biblical texts were copied over time.

"We have every reason to believe that the original writings and their earliest copies would have been in circulation for a hundred years in most cases — in some cases much longer, even 200 years," he said.

This means that "a scribe making a copy of a script in the third century could actually have at his disposal (the) first-century originals, or first-century copies, as well as second-century copies."

Set to publish

Evans said that the research team will publish the first volume of texts obtained through the mummy masks and cartonnage later this year. It will include the gospel fragment that the researchers believe dates back to the first century.

The team originally hoped the volume would be published in 2013 or 2014, but the date had to be moved back to 2015. Evans said he is uncertain why the book's publication was delayed, but the team has made use of the extra time to conduct further studies into the first-century gospel. "The benefit of the delay is that when it comes out, there will be additional information about it and other related texts."http://www.livescience.com/49489-oldest-...-mask.html
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#19
EA why do you think that you must post in any topic with all your mumble jumble silly comments? You act like a child trying to speak in a conversation conducted by grown ups, grow up dude and stop the stupidity, you know better or at least I hope you know better.
Seek and ye shall find. JESUS
------------------------------------------
I am a recovering vegetarian   Hi
Reply
#20
I guess thatz just the way it goes mayito... Terrible parables and all.

I could easily have a moderate discourse with you on the possibilities that if even one word is found to be different in the easrliest passages of The Gospel(s) of Mark ever found as we await itz revelation(s).
It may or may not totally change our views.

Just skip past me when you are browsing the forum... pay me no nevermind. Koolaid

If any words are found to be different there might be a variety of reasons why this may be so.
There is a precedent for this in other ancient texts that cause their re-interpretation.

You are not required to interact with me and it certainly wouldn't bother me at all if you posted a dozen threads about:
Three-toed  disembodied Sphinx paws.

I am glad you are recovering enough to carry on your purported and self-described "Clashes" that you seem to have with my style but If I Am your problem...you definately are not mine.

If eye overturn your mind's money-changers tables itz only because you hate things that are free.
I work for YOU.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#21
Here ya go mayito NOW EYE sound exactly like you...Yay!!! Dance2 Dance2 Dance2

Quote:Mayito why do you think that you must post in any topic with all your mumble jumble silly comments? You act like a child trying to speak in a conversation conducted by grown ups, grow up dude and stop the stupidity,
[Image: 3TOES_zps31595fab.jpg]
you know better or at least I hope you know better.
http://keithlaney.net/SMF/index.php?topic=15664.0


I guess thatz just the way it goes May it Toes... Terrible parables and all.

I could easily have a moderate discourse with you on the possibilities that if even one word is found to be different in the easrliest passages of The Gospel(s) of Mark ever found as we await itz revelation(s).
It may or may not totally change our views.

Just skip past me when you are browsing the forum... pay me no nevermind.

If any words are found to be different there might be a variety of reasons why this may be so.
There is a precedent for this in other ancient texts that cause their re-interpretation.
[Image: mummy-mask-150118.jpg?1421572553]
You are not required to interact with me and it certainly wouldn't bother me at all if you posted a dozen threads about:
Three-toed  disembodied Sphinx paws.

I am glad you are recovering enough to carry on your purported and self-described "Clashes" that you seem to have with my style but If I Am your problem...you definately are not mine.

If eye overturn your mind's money-changers tables itz only because you hate things that are free.
I work for YOU.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#22
"You act like a child trying to speak in a conversation conducted by grown ups"

Dance2 I Borrowed that one from Mary's 12 year old  runaway brat @ the 2nd Temple wayyyyyyy back in the day. Mellow

[Image: boy-jesus-in-the-temple-39538-gallery.jpg]

Improv:As far as Eye see,You are a Fair as See Reefer

Back to Kickin it Old school.[Image: 800px-Nicolas_Poussin_052.jpg]


Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#23
Please excuse an infantile reinterpretation of Jesus since childish is only an aspect of a lifetime.
Quote:"...on the possibilities that if even one word is found to be different..."

The new lambs would, according to some sources, even be wrapped in special swaddling clothes once certified.


The Jesus Talk will mature as we willny-nilly progress the way threads always do...I Luv it! Dance2 Mellow Dance2


The Biblical arguments for the theory of Migdal Eder cite the fact that the word translated “manger” in the Gospels could also be translated as “stall” or any holding area for animals

[move][sup]Manger[/sup] Sheep [sub]Stall[/sub][/move]





Was Jesus Born Away in a Manger at Migdal Eder?

December 19, 2012 by Bill Blankschaen

Hmm2

I knew the traditional nativity scene had issues.

The three wise men who likely weren’t three and didn’t show up until two years later.  The star hovering just above the quaint wooden structure that looks more like an English countryside barn than the back end of an inn. The all-too-pristine setting after an impromptu birth.

I thought I had heard it all.

[Image: shepherd-Angels.jpg]


I even shared a take on The Christmas Message based on the traditional interpretation just a few days ago. I thought I understood the Christmas story pretty well after nearly four decades of being steeped in Christianity.

Until I heard the theory that Jesus was born away in a manger – but at Migdal Eder and not in a cramped and filthy cave behind a crowded inn.

Migdal What?!
Migdal Eder seems to have been known as the “Tower of the Flock” located not far outside Bethlehem proper. The exact location is unknown though several credible sites have been suggested. Heretical, I know. But bear with me. I think the imagery alone makes it a theory worth considering.

It was Pastor Mark Spansel who offered the theory on the birthplace of Jesus in a recent sermon at our church, although it seems to have been Alfred Edersheim (1899) who gets most of the credit for breathing relatively new life into it. In Chapter 6 of The Life and Times of Jesus Messiah, he allegedly wrote:
Quote:And yet Jewish tradition may here prove both illustrative and helpful. That the Messiah was to be born in Bethlehem, was a settled conviction.

Equally so, was the belief , that He was to be revealed from Migdal Eder, ‘the tower of the flock.’ This Migdal Eder was not the watchtower for the ordinary flocks which pastured on the barren sheepground beyond Bethlehem, but lay close to the town, on the road to Jerusalem.

A passage in the Mishnah leads to the conclusion, that the flocks, which pastured there, were destined for Temple-sacrifices, and, accordingly, that the shepherds, who watched over them, were not ordinary shepherds.

The latter were under the ban of Rabbinism, on account of their necessary isolation from religious ordinances, and their manner of life, which rendered strict legal observance unlikely, if not absolutely impossible.

The same Mishnaic passage also leads us to infer, that these flocks lay out all the year round, since they are spoken of as in the fields thirty days before Passover–that is, in the month of February, when in Palestine [Israel] the average rainfall is nearly greatest.

Thus, Jewish tradition in some dim manner apprehended the first revelation of the Messiah from that Migdal Eder, where shepards watched the Temple-flocks all the year round. Of the deep symbolic significance of such a coincidence, it is needless to speak. [emphasis mine]


Here’s the theory in summary. There was place just outside of Bethlehem city, but still within the region commonly known as Bethlehem, where Passover lambs were kept by specially trained and purified shepherds. The lambs were born in this “tower of the flock” known as Migdal Eder under the watchful eye of the shepherds who would then inspect and either certify them for use as sacrifices in the temple or designate them to be released for common use. The new lambs would, according to some sources, even be wrapped in special swaddling clothes once certified.

The Biblical arguments for the theory of Migdal Eder cite the fact that the word translated “manger” in the Gospels could also be translated as “stall” or any holding area for animals — such as Migdal Eder. Cooper P. Abrams III argues this point:

Quote:The Greek word which is translated in our English Bibles “manger” is Yatnh phat-ne (pronounced fat’-nay). The definition of the word is of a “stall” where animals are kept and in Luke 13:15 is translated as such. In the Septuagint (Greek translation of the Old Testament) the word means a stall or a crib (See Proverbs 14:4).


Proponents of the theory point to rabbinical writings and Micah 4:8 and other more debatable passages that you can explore as you desire.

Quote:And you, O tower of the flock, The stronghold of the daughter of Zion, To you shall it come, Even the former dominion shall come, The kingdom of the daughter of Jerusalem. ~ Micah 4:8


What I Like about It
Here’s what I find fascinating about the theory. First, it places Jesus’ birth in the traditional location for Passover lambs to be born. Fitting, since He became the Passover Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world. Second, it explains how the shepherds knew where to go to find the newborn babe — and why it being wrapped in swaddling clothes would be significant clue. Finally, it explains why those shepherds were notified as it was their holy calling to certify Passover lambs upon birth.

Maybe Jesus was born away in a manger, just not like the one made in China on the shelf at Wal-Mart. But in the “tower of the flock”, Migdal Eder, surrounded by holy shepherds, set apart to certify the birth of the ultimate Passover Lamb.

Jimmy DeYoung has an overly dramatic and under-sourced video at You Tube on the subject that really isn’t all that helpful. And I confess to not being familiar with most of these sources. But the data seems sufficient to entertain the possibile imagery at work here. I welcome comments from others who’ve already explored this one deeper.

Quote:What do you make of this interpretation? Of course, we can’t know for sure, but how do these theories affect your view of the birth of Christ? Leave a comment below with your thoughts.
Read more: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/faithwalker...z3PKb94TR3





In my Father's house,I grew up listening to his theories on "The Passover Plot" By Dr. Hugh Shonefield.

His Name was Thomas and he was a doubter of everything told to him unless he looked into it himself.
He Was a Fortean skeptic of all of so-called: "History".
I'm just his kid even though I'm a Grand Pa.

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#24
Very interesting EA.....Quite!
If this place is 'Hard By' Bethlehem, actually part thereof......Why not? The symbolism fits the 'Type'.

Really been enjoying looking into the different bits of foreshadowing 'Types' thru out the Torah as well.
Incredible the things that are being revealed in these last days.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#25
"In my Father's house,I grew up listening to his theories on "The Passover Plot" By Dr. Hugh Shonefield." Hmm2

Not sure either Mayo nor FSB would be able to handle that one.

Read that one a long time ago. The text indicates some very interesting situations which if factual, could be detrimental to Christianity.

Seems to me that some of the more recently discovered, and totally unaccepted "Gospels" lend credence to this work.

That's just an opinion though.




Mellow
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.<br />Aldous Huxley
Reply
#26
(01-21-2015, 03:23 PM)alemos link Wrote:"In my Father's house,I grew up listening to his theories on "The Passover Plot" By Dr. Hugh Shonefield." Hmm2

Not sure either Mayo nor FSB would be able to handle that one.

Read that one a long time ago. The text indicates some very interesting situations which if factual, could be detrimental to Christianity.

Seems to me that some of the more recently discovered, and totally unaccepted "Gospels" lend credence to this work.

That's just an opinion though.




Mellow

I think 'The Passover Plot' is a book a professor at Foothill Junior College in Los Altos Hills, Calif tried to get me to read in the mid '60s.
I think anyone who'd buy into that ought to consider the Torah, the huge number of very compelling foreshadowing types presented there, and as if that weren't enough, let the scoffer consider the implications of the 'Sevens'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hOKA9fR2p4

But I suppose for some, nothing could ever be enough. We all tend toward or paradigms.

 
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#27
(01-21-2015, 12:55 PM)Fsbirdhouse link Wrote:Very interesting EA.....Quite!
If this place is 'Hard By' Bethlehem, actually part thereof......Why not? The symbolism fits the 'Type'.

Really been enjoying looking into the different bits of foreshadowing 'Types' thru out the Torah as well.
Incredible the things that are being revealed in these last days.

Jesus in all of his forms are fascinating fsb.
My current opinion is I don't believe we are in the last days,and I will tell you why.
Nigh

This is why.

Third along the vines of the vineyard...
Second secure forked tongue in cheek...
First I must apologise to Mayito and turn the other cheek...

I Am sorry mayito.


Moving on...

FSB.
The entire gamut of Jesus' can be discussed here.
We've got all the time in the world.

Consider this this the council of 'nice' EA so that Mayito's hertz shall be Schumanned.

This is the Third Rock from the sun and Jesus didn't live under a rock.

This thread will flesh the word out.

From the Composite sketches left behind after witness accounts and hearsay as opposed to heresey.

hearsay as opposed to heresey posted "Here Say"

Say Here because itz the Counsel of Nice EA

I don't bury my talents... let's dig up Jesus!!!



Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#28
Quote:Posted by: EA
« on: January 19, 2015, 09:14:23 PM »


Here’s the theory in summary. There was place just outside of Bethlehem city, but still within the region commonly known as Bethlehem, where Passover lambs were kept by specially trained and purified shepherds. The lambs were born in this “tower of the flock” known as Migdal Eder under the watchful eye of the shepherds who would then inspect and either certify them for use as sacrifices in the temple or designate them to be released for common use. The new lambs would, according to some sources, even be wrapped in special swaddling clothes once certified.

The Biblical arguments for the theory of Migdal Eder cite the fact that the word translated “manger” in the Gospels could also be translated as “stall” or any holding area for animals — such as Migdal Eder. Cooper P. Abrams III argues this point:

Here’s the theory in reality.

Mysterious 15th-Century Irish Town Found Near Medieval Castle

January 20, 2015 07:03am

[Image: Irish-exvacation-settlement.JPG?1421432832]
Archaeologists excavated a stone structure near Dunluce Castle along the coast of Northern Ireland. Experts already knew about a town that flourished in the 1600s, [i]but they were unaware of the earlier settlement, which dates back to the late 1400s and early 1500s.Credit: Northern Ireland Environment Agency[/i]

Quote:The medieval Dunluce Castle, located on the craggy rocks of Northern Ireland's coast, is neighbors with a mysterious stone settlement, according to a recent excavation.

The castle dates back to the 15th century, and once housed the powerful MacQuillan family, which controlled a large amount of territory in Northern Ireland. On a recent dig, the Northern Ireland Environment Agency planned to uncover part of the lost 17th century town of Dunluce near the castle. But instead, archaeologists stumbled upon an earlier settlement that dates back to the 15th and 16th centuries.

"This is a tremendously exciting historical development," Mark Durkan, Northern Ireland's environment minister, said in a statement. "Traces of buildings were unearthed close to the cliffs upon which the castle was built. These buildings most likely formed a small settlement, just outside the original castle gate."

The settlement's remains include a stone structure with a doorway at its corner, "which is quite different to the 17th century buildings revealed to date," Durkan said. Through radiocarbon dating, the researchers determined that a fireplace inside was used in the late 15th century, about the same time that the MacQuillans lived in Dunluce Castle.

"We are extremely lucky to make this exciting discovery," Durkan said. "Very few 15th-century buildings, other than those built entirely from stone, have survived in Ulster and normally there would be few traces, if any, for archaeologists to investigate."
[Image: shepherd-Angels.jpg]
The archaeologists also found pottery that dates back to the late medieval period, which raises questions about the settlement's relationship to the early inhabitants of Dunluce, experts said.

"Up to [sup]now[/sup], we knew there was a substantial 17th century settlement in the fields around Dunluce,"Durkan said.

[Image: irish-excavation2.jpg?1421433415]
An archeologist digs through the rocky field near Dunluce Castle. The town founded by the MacDonnells in 1608 thrived until 1642, when it burnt down after a conflict. The town never recovered, and people abandoned it in the 1680s, according to researchers.
Credit: Northern Ireland Environment Agency


"What we are [sub]now[/sub] beginning to uncover are traces of earlier and extensive late medieval settlement activity, which are equally as important as the remains of the 17th century Dunluce Town. This provides an exciting new avenue of research to explore as part of our future investigations at Dunluce."

The government of Northern Ireland plans to continue the excavation of the town at Dunluce and the castle's gardens with money from the Heritage Lottery

http://www.livescience.com/49487-dunluce...eland.html
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#29
If Even one word is changed(like water into wine) the effects could be global.

When The oldest/earliest edition of the Gospel of Mark is released perhaps a new Jesus may literally be un-masked.

If not the status quo is safe for now. Mellow
If so you might as well call a Vatican3 immediately. Damned

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#30
Manifest Complexity: A Foundational Ethic for Astrobiology? Hmm2

[Image: Blake.jpg]

Maybe guys like Jesus are just natural events that realised Two millenia before we did that: "Ye Are Gods" 

Was there "High-Science" Reefer in Jesus' time?
If Time is what we think of as his life and ministry.
Time may be one factor in a purley natural reason to be moral?
And if this is inherent in our very being we were not all being It.
So knowing what he knew by his advanced education and intuitive gut instinct and reasoning abilities...
He just acted like a "Kick-Starter" project and since he was creating a following like on facebook and twitter he was an independant free-thinker and a massive threat to the unenlightened minds around him.
Independant like an Indie-a-g0-g0 campaign gaining momentum as he said words like he meant 'em.

Two millenia is plenty enough to get back to excavating all aspects of the man,the myth,the legend and the truth.
Wether he was the son of god or an alien or a failed rebel king/rightful heir.


Think of it this way:
In a modern perspective of the now.


Researcher explores how the universe creates reason, morality

Jan 23, 2015 by Kelly Smith

[Image: solarsystem.jpg]

Quote:Recent developments in science are beginning to suggest that the universe naturally produces complexity. The emergence of life in general and perhaps even rational life, with its associated technological culture, may be extremely common, argues Clemson researcher Kelly Smith in a recently published paper in the journal Space Policy.

What's more, he suggests, this universal tendency has distinctly religious overtones and may even establish a truly universal basis for morality.

Smith, a Philosopher and Evolutionary Biologist, applies recent theoretical developments in Biology and Complex Systems Theory to attempt new answers to the kind of enduring questions about human purpose and obligation that have long been considered the sole province of the humanities.

He points out that scientists are increasingly beginning to discuss how the basic structure of the universe seems to favor the creation of complexity. The large scale history of the universe strongly suggests a trend of increasing complexity: disordered energy states produce atoms and molecules, which combine to form suns and associated planets, on which life evolves. Life then seems to exhibit its own pattern of increasing complexity, with simple organisms getting more complex over evolutionary time until they eventually develop rationality and complex culture.

And recent theoretical developments in Biology and complex systems theory suggest this trend may be real, arising from the basic structure of the universe in a predictable fashion.

"If this is right," says Smith, "you can look at the universe as a kind of 'complexity machine', which raises all sorts of questions about what this means in a broader sense. For example, does believing the universe is structured to produce complexity in general, and rational creatures in particular, constitute a religious belief? It need not imply that the universe was created by a God, but on the other hand, it does suggest that the kind of rationality we hold dear is not an accident."
And Smith feels another similarity to religion are the potential moral implications of this idea. If evolution tends to favor the development of sociality, reason, and culture as a kind of "package deal", then it's a good bet that any smart extraterrestrials we encounter will have similar evolved attitudes about their basic moral commitments.

In particular, they will likely agree with us that there is something morally special about rational, social creatures. And such universal agreement, argues Smith, could be the foundation for a truly universal system of ethics.

Smith will soon take sabbatical to lay the groundwork for a book exploring these issues in more detail.


Explore further: Physicists propose identification of a gravitational arrow of time

More information: Manifest Complexity: A Foundational Ethic for Astrobiology? www.sciencedirect.com/science/… ii/S026596461400085X

http://phys.org/news/2015-01-explores-un...ality.html
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#31
Quote:Was there "High-Science" Reefer in Jesus' time?

Hmm2  We know this at the very least. Dunno

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-antikythera...greek.html

Reply
#32
Significantly before His time, it seems.  Mellow
Reply
#33
The way he regarded currency was ultra before his time stuff.

Consider: "Bitcoin"

[Image: 400px-Bitcoin_accepted_here_sign_horizontal2.png]

He basically thought each person had a wealth within them already just by knowing advanced concepts possibly learned in mystery schooling and "life in general" let alone the fact that he acts like a "General" at times if not The Supreme Commander of forces himself.

[Image: jesus-overturned-tables.jpg?w=350&h=248]

He demonstrates that like the bread and the fish multiplying aplenty are provided  more freely as opposed to:
Setting up shop at the top of four-seasons  Reefer Prophet Sheep Profit.
Kid Rock and he's the real McCoy...  Dance2

He Valued people.
That right there is an Uncalculable fortune amassed within that "Bit-coin" like de-centralised concept itself.
Thinking like that in his epoch was like running windows 10 compared to Wusniak and Jobs trying to code the first apple ios.

There are missing years in his story. Dunno
And Carpenter really means Mason??? Damned

9 Dec 2011 ... The Greek word is [i]Teckton which means builder. Now ... of stones and rocks,
Jesus likely worked as a stonemason rather than a carpenter.
[/i]

http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://chri...4hHiqevwzQ

Hats off to Joseph.

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)