07-01-2017, 09:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-02-2017, 05:56 AM by Ancient Vizier.)

A couple of items - I think I've made some progress lately but it's kind of soon to really tell... it LOOKS to me like there is most likely at least one more important approximation of Venus' orbital period, namely 225.3210359 (days). I've been trying to avoid making this concession, but the figure seems to be pedigreed and versatile, and tentatively appears to be the missing piece in at least some important equations. If there is another version of the Long Count that comes along with it, I couldn't tell you yet. There actually is something that is about 18990 (days) but I've really been trying to avoid complicating the proceedings with that one also, so I haven't even really explored the question anywhere near as well as might be done.

Also, the Thom Type A Flattened ring has a particular value that's intriguing, it is "angle Theta = 19.10660535*" and I'm increasingly convinced that is intended to be interpreted as 19.11240674 (degrees). I often used to wonder that back when I was originally working on it but was never quite that sure (10 Ellifinos was the other thing I kept wondering about). 19.11240674 x or / 10^2 continues to accumulate some evidence of respectable pedigree (back in the day when I was wondering, I posted some aliases of this figure doubled), and it's finally come to my attention, since attempting to understand Mayan math has seemingly justified my trying to be more conscious of squares and square roots, that

19.11240674^2 = 365.2840914

This would automatically build this days-of-the-year figure into all stone circles classified as Thom Type A Flattened Rings.

365.2840914 is in turn beginning to reveal just enough pedigree that it might be best to try to take that figure seriously as another valid expression of the number of days in a year. It's just as much a setback as it is progress, though, to try to go back and work out where these figures fit in as carefully as I've tried to do with most of the other figures recently commanding attention.

FWIW, after many equations showing the relationship of "Alternate Pi" 1.1772245771 to ancient Venus math, there is

225 / 1.177245771 = 191.1240673

So the figure has gotten that much harder to ignore lately, even if I'm not half sure what it really is.

This figure for the year seems to belong to the proceedings to some or other degree

365.2840914 / 225 = 1.623484851 = 1.622311470 x 1.000723277 = 365.020081 / 224.8373804 = 12.98787878 / 8

Also I've developed a case of "The Seventy Two Problem," which is that that I've finally realized that some of what looks like often-repeated use of 7.215488220 (1 / (1.177245771^2)) most likely means 7.200000000, but combining the use of the meter with the lack of data at the third place after the decimal, means that the data just isn't going to be precise enough to help sort that out of itself - both 7.2 and 7.215488220 are going to come out looking like 7.215488220 (or the other half of the time 7.2 will get rounded down to 7.185039370) - and instead, finding the original intent is left up to trial and error. Thus I may have some fairly elaborate equations to recheck to make sure I didn't miss an appearance of "72 Proper" somewhere.

2.19 m = 219 cm = 7.185039370 ft

2.19456 m = 219.456 cm = 7.200000000 ft <--invisible to archaeologists using the #$&*@!! centimeter/Metric system?

2.20 m = 220 cm = 7.217847769 ft (7.215488220 = (1 / (1.177245771^2)) x 10)

It's one reason I haven't made any declarations on the rooms at Rio Bec based on Andrews' data yet, it occurred to me that I should be seeing some versions of some of these equations that actually use 72 / 10 as 72 / 10. Likewise regarding the length of the Rio Bec building as mentioned previously,

(Hay, Clarence L., 1935. A Contribution to Maya Architecture. Natural History 36 (1): 29-33).

"As in all Maya work, the building is not entirely symmetrical. The central doorway is set slightly to the left as is the double roof comb. An amazing accuracy, however, was reached in the length of the building, for although the north wall had fallen, the measurements taken on the site indicated a length of 84 feet 1 inch on the east side, and 84 feet 2 inches on the west"

These look remarkably like 18980 / 225 = 84.355... to me but I'm just not quite sure what is meant exactly. Both could be meant as (1 / (12 (Pi^2) x 10^n) = 84.43431970 which belongs to equations involving both current candidates for the Long Count of the Maya, but there are actually as many as a half dozen interesting candidates in this range and another Long Count figure may be on the horizon, and the small disparity noted by Hay may well mean that a particularly good pair was selected rather than any single figure for both east and west walls.

I have been working on the iconography again, though. I'm as convinced as ever that the mythology is directly reinforcing some of these mathematical concepts - that we see monster mouths, teeth, fangs, skulls, serpents and human beings flayed alive not for reasons of an oppressive religion or morbidity, but for reasons of arithmetic - which is not at all unlike what we might expect from some other ancient cultures.

In fact, one of the things I think is that all you have to do is permit more than one concentric band of hieroglyphs on a circular calendar stone, and you've probably created the inevitable forerunner to the tortoise shell motif as can be found in "altars" at Copan. (I'm not entirely sure yet but examples of a "transition" model between the two might have appeared at places such as Yaxchilan if these aren't already reiterations of even older iconography).

Another thing I think is that as far back as La Venta ("altar" 4) you can see some of this in iconographically-correct context including what may be an underappreciated early appearance of Xipe Totec or Coatlicue, which may be telling us (among other things mathematical) that ancient calendar math and geodetic math have been woven together for convenience for quite some time.

The same is probably true of the spiral eyes we find in some of this work - see Chenes culture - i.e., that it refers to the utility of constants related to spirals, like Phi and e and/or their various approximations, although this part may be harder to prove given that while George Andrews provided tons of data including doorway widths at many sites, so far its looking like it was mainly at Tikal where he bothered to get data for the height of doorways, so what exactly we see these spirals motifs adorning in terms of arithmetic may be harder to determine. Even though I'm still experimenting with the idea, I do think things are probably looking good for a good part of the reason we see the Chenes "monster mouths" to be because they really are referencing the number of teeth that human beings can boast, which according to Wikipedia totals 52, the same number of weeks in a year.

This form of "52" - 51.95151522 reacts with Alternate e' to produce

51.95151522 / 2.720174976 = 19.09859317 = 60 / Pi = sqrt 364.7562611, our second most valuable figure thus far for representing the 365 day year...

And it reacts with our new friend 19.11240674 to produce a more e-like value (logarithmic e = 2.71828182845)

51.95151522 / 19.11240674 = 2.718208960

And that would probably be another point for Professor Thom's Stone Age Geniuses as well as for the Maya...

Although the precise results may of course depend a great deal on exactly which of a number of possible representations of "52" that we choose to work with.

Hopefully I will find time in the next week to cover some of these things and a few others in a little more detail.

Also I've begun to wonder if some of the ancient UK Megalithic "cup and ring"-marked stones might not constitute maps of nearby monuments rendered not-to-scale, but it sounds like just the kind of hypothesis someone else would have beaten me to, so corroboration of that, if there is any merit to the idea, could already be out there somewhere? (It occurred to me that such maps might be readable even when travelling at night without a suitable light source).

As to the reasoning behind this daring proposal

"Temple IV (Maler)

Width 10.17060367 Height 10.40026247 Ratio 1.022580646 Product 105.7769476

Perhaps the most pleasing and sensible interpretation for what was intended could well turn out to be

Width 10.25135528 Height 10.47197551 Ratio 1.021521079 Product 107.3519415"

This gesture locks both unexpected figures 10.25135528 and 1.021521079 into a remarkable series using the now traditional Tikal (Pi/3) probe. What it sets up literally display forwards and backwards in a far more interesting manner than using would using 10.39030304 and the square root of 103.9030304 = 10.19328359 to announce that particular square root relationship. Here's the series forwards, as far as I recognize it with out additional analysis (I have to say, it looks a bit like it might have been a fairly typical Maya practice to try to find ways to start a series such as this a little higher or lower than we might usually think to - at first you think you're on the wrong track and then suddenly at least five really hot responses in a row).

1 / 1.021521800 = 9.789323197 / 10

9.789323197 x (Pi^3) = 10.25135528

10.25135528 x (Pi^3) = 10.73519415 = 1 / .93151552369 = (38.81314682* x 24) / 10^n

10.73519415 x (Pi^3) = 11.24186902 = 2.248373804 x 5

11.24186902 x (Pi^3) = 11.77245771 = 10 Alternate Pi

11.77245771 x (Pi^3) = 12.32808889 = 20 / Alternate Phi 1.62231147

12.32808889 x (Pi^3) = 12.90994449 = (1 / sqrt 60) x 100

12.90994449 x (Pi^3) = 13.51926226 = (1 / Squared Yoda Megalithic Yard) x 100

13.51926226 x (Pi^3) = 14.51733833 = (1 / (6 x 1.177245771)) x 100

14.51733833 x (Pi^3) = 14.82553003 = (1 / (57.29577951 x 1.177245771)) / 10^n

14.82553003 x (Pi^3) = 15.52525874 = 31.05051749** = (1 / 64.41116483***) x 10^n

*= (see previous info on Temple I outer proportions & Yoda's diagram)

**= (see previous info on Great Pyramid & Pyramidion)

***=(see previous info on Tikal temple doorway proposals)

I could be wrong but I'll be hard pressed to come up with anything better, even it really is only a previous Tikal proposal that's reframed and reiterated even more dramatically, showing off (Pi/3) as active in context to about the twentieth power.

Also, the Thom Type A Flattened ring has a particular value that's intriguing, it is "angle Theta = 19.10660535*" and I'm increasingly convinced that is intended to be interpreted as 19.11240674 (degrees). I often used to wonder that back when I was originally working on it but was never quite that sure (10 Ellifinos was the other thing I kept wondering about). 19.11240674 x or / 10^2 continues to accumulate some evidence of respectable pedigree (back in the day when I was wondering, I posted some aliases of this figure doubled), and it's finally come to my attention, since attempting to understand Mayan math has seemingly justified my trying to be more conscious of squares and square roots, that

19.11240674^2 = 365.2840914

This would automatically build this days-of-the-year figure into all stone circles classified as Thom Type A Flattened Rings.

365.2840914 is in turn beginning to reveal just enough pedigree that it might be best to try to take that figure seriously as another valid expression of the number of days in a year. It's just as much a setback as it is progress, though, to try to go back and work out where these figures fit in as carefully as I've tried to do with most of the other figures recently commanding attention.

FWIW, after many equations showing the relationship of "Alternate Pi" 1.1772245771 to ancient Venus math, there is

225 / 1.177245771 = 191.1240673

So the figure has gotten that much harder to ignore lately, even if I'm not half sure what it really is.

This figure for the year seems to belong to the proceedings to some or other degree

365.2840914 / 225 = 1.623484851 = 1.622311470 x 1.000723277 = 365.020081 / 224.8373804 = 12.98787878 / 8

Also I've developed a case of "The Seventy Two Problem," which is that that I've finally realized that some of what looks like often-repeated use of 7.215488220 (1 / (1.177245771^2)) most likely means 7.200000000, but combining the use of the meter with the lack of data at the third place after the decimal, means that the data just isn't going to be precise enough to help sort that out of itself - both 7.2 and 7.215488220 are going to come out looking like 7.215488220 (or the other half of the time 7.2 will get rounded down to 7.185039370) - and instead, finding the original intent is left up to trial and error. Thus I may have some fairly elaborate equations to recheck to make sure I didn't miss an appearance of "72 Proper" somewhere.

2.19 m = 219 cm = 7.185039370 ft

2.19456 m = 219.456 cm = 7.200000000 ft <--invisible to archaeologists using the #$&*@!! centimeter/Metric system?

2.20 m = 220 cm = 7.217847769 ft (7.215488220 = (1 / (1.177245771^2)) x 10)

It's one reason I haven't made any declarations on the rooms at Rio Bec based on Andrews' data yet, it occurred to me that I should be seeing some versions of some of these equations that actually use 72 / 10 as 72 / 10. Likewise regarding the length of the Rio Bec building as mentioned previously,

(Hay, Clarence L., 1935. A Contribution to Maya Architecture. Natural History 36 (1): 29-33).

"As in all Maya work, the building is not entirely symmetrical. The central doorway is set slightly to the left as is the double roof comb. An amazing accuracy, however, was reached in the length of the building, for although the north wall had fallen, the measurements taken on the site indicated a length of 84 feet 1 inch on the east side, and 84 feet 2 inches on the west"

These look remarkably like 18980 / 225 = 84.355... to me but I'm just not quite sure what is meant exactly. Both could be meant as (1 / (12 (Pi^2) x 10^n) = 84.43431970 which belongs to equations involving both current candidates for the Long Count of the Maya, but there are actually as many as a half dozen interesting candidates in this range and another Long Count figure may be on the horizon, and the small disparity noted by Hay may well mean that a particularly good pair was selected rather than any single figure for both east and west walls.

I have been working on the iconography again, though. I'm as convinced as ever that the mythology is directly reinforcing some of these mathematical concepts - that we see monster mouths, teeth, fangs, skulls, serpents and human beings flayed alive not for reasons of an oppressive religion or morbidity, but for reasons of arithmetic - which is not at all unlike what we might expect from some other ancient cultures.

In fact, one of the things I think is that all you have to do is permit more than one concentric band of hieroglyphs on a circular calendar stone, and you've probably created the inevitable forerunner to the tortoise shell motif as can be found in "altars" at Copan. (I'm not entirely sure yet but examples of a "transition" model between the two might have appeared at places such as Yaxchilan if these aren't already reiterations of even older iconography).

Another thing I think is that as far back as La Venta ("altar" 4) you can see some of this in iconographically-correct context including what may be an underappreciated early appearance of Xipe Totec or Coatlicue, which may be telling us (among other things mathematical) that ancient calendar math and geodetic math have been woven together for convenience for quite some time.

La Venta, "Altar" 4

Left hand of figure at left protrudes from second ("flayed") skin twisted into (earth) "serpent"?

Since these "flayed" deities may represent the serpent shedding its skin, their use may carry responsibility for serpent-related

(i.e., metrological and geodetic) concerns and mathematical figures?

This monument, like numerous others, may be a conceptual and mathematical representation of the earth?

Tlaltecuhtli Disc at Xihuacan

Demonstrates awareness of Venus' orbital relationship to pentagonal geometry, invites division of circle into 5 segments of 72* each, and links this to iconography (and mathematics) of a double-headed serpent, which (or alternately, the duality of the shedding serpent and the shed skin) may symbolize the duality of geodetic measurement of divergent polar and equatorial values (and / or the duality of circumference as reckoned in both miles and feet?)

(The artifact may also exhibit, in my personal opinion, what may be considerable Peruvian design influence? - and yes, that may actually be the Pi symbol under the circle in the center?!?)

"Stellar Venus symbol from Teotihuacan, dispensing influence downwards towards the earth. Compare with picture 8 in Egypt Gallery 6"

The same is probably true of the spiral eyes we find in some of this work - see Chenes culture - i.e., that it refers to the utility of constants related to spirals, like Phi and e and/or their various approximations, although this part may be harder to prove given that while George Andrews provided tons of data including doorway widths at many sites, so far its looking like it was mainly at Tikal where he bothered to get data for the height of doorways, so what exactly we see these spirals motifs adorning in terms of arithmetic may be harder to determine. Even though I'm still experimenting with the idea, I do think things are probably looking good for a good part of the reason we see the Chenes "monster mouths" to be because they really are referencing the number of teeth that human beings can boast, which according to Wikipedia totals 52, the same number of weeks in a year.

"Monster Mouth" Door at Chicanna

The number of teeth you were expecting, divided or multiplied by the number of teeth that actually appear, is one of the rules?

"Monster Mouth" at La Venta (and elsewhere):

Naturally, Le Serpent Rouge continues to struggle valiantly to maintain identity as a "serpent-related" number for no good reason, as can be seen in this combination of spiral related constants

Alternate e' 2.720174976 / Alternate Phi 1.622311470 = Le Serpent Rouge 1.676727943

This form of "52" - 51.95151522 reacts with Alternate e' to produce

51.95151522 / 2.720174976 = 19.09859317 = 60 / Pi = sqrt 364.7562611, our second most valuable figure thus far for representing the 365 day year...

And it reacts with our new friend 19.11240674 to produce a more e-like value (logarithmic e = 2.71828182845)

51.95151522 / 19.11240674 = 2.718208960

And that would probably be another point for Professor Thom's Stone Age Geniuses as well as for the Maya...

Although the precise results may of course depend a great deal on exactly which of a number of possible representations of "52" that we choose to work with.

Hopefully I will find time in the next week to cover some of these things and a few others in a little more detail.

Also I've begun to wonder if some of the ancient UK Megalithic "cup and ring"-marked stones might not constitute maps of nearby monuments rendered not-to-scale, but it sounds like just the kind of hypothesis someone else would have beaten me to, so corroboration of that, if there is any merit to the idea, could already be out there somewhere? (It occurred to me that such maps might be readable even when travelling at night without a suitable light source).

As to the reasoning behind this daring proposal

"Temple IV (Maler)

Width 10.17060367 Height 10.40026247 Ratio 1.022580646 Product 105.7769476

Perhaps the most pleasing and sensible interpretation for what was intended could well turn out to be

Width 10.25135528 Height 10.47197551 Ratio 1.021521079 Product 107.3519415"

This gesture locks both unexpected figures 10.25135528 and 1.021521079 into a remarkable series using the now traditional Tikal (Pi/3) probe. What it sets up literally display forwards and backwards in a far more interesting manner than using would using 10.39030304 and the square root of 103.9030304 = 10.19328359 to announce that particular square root relationship. Here's the series forwards, as far as I recognize it with out additional analysis (I have to say, it looks a bit like it might have been a fairly typical Maya practice to try to find ways to start a series such as this a little higher or lower than we might usually think to - at first you think you're on the wrong track and then suddenly at least five really hot responses in a row).

1 / 1.021521800 = 9.789323197 / 10

9.789323197 x (Pi^3) = 10.25135528

10.25135528 x (Pi^3) = 10.73519415 = 1 / .93151552369 = (38.81314682* x 24) / 10^n

10.73519415 x (Pi^3) = 11.24186902 = 2.248373804 x 5

11.24186902 x (Pi^3) = 11.77245771 = 10 Alternate Pi

11.77245771 x (Pi^3) = 12.32808889 = 20 / Alternate Phi 1.62231147

12.32808889 x (Pi^3) = 12.90994449 = (1 / sqrt 60) x 100

12.90994449 x (Pi^3) = 13.51926226 = (1 / Squared Yoda Megalithic Yard) x 100

13.51926226 x (Pi^3) = 14.51733833 = (1 / (6 x 1.177245771)) x 100

14.51733833 x (Pi^3) = 14.82553003 = (1 / (57.29577951 x 1.177245771)) / 10^n

14.82553003 x (Pi^3) = 15.52525874 = 31.05051749** = (1 / 64.41116483***) x 10^n

*= (see previous info on Temple I outer proportions & Yoda's diagram)

**= (see previous info on Great Pyramid & Pyramidion)

***=(see previous info on Tikal temple doorway proposals)

I could be wrong but I'll be hard pressed to come up with anything better, even it really is only a previous Tikal proposal that's reframed and reiterated even more dramatically, showing off (Pi/3) as active in context to about the twentieth power.

"Work and pray, live on hay, you'll get Pie In The Sky when you die." - Joe Hill, "The Preacher and the Slave" 1911