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Ancient Civilisation on Mars my discoveries
#67
...
By the ways,
that last facial feature -- ScarFace --- is about ten km long .

Phelgra glacial landscapes
This particular site at Phelgra,
from a directly over head view in the top image,
interests me more than the potential artificial landforms there.

Top image,
A collapse of landslide material has inundated the crater,
leaving only the bottom half of the crater wall visible.
Upper left corner of the image,
is a small cut out of the landscape showing -- 
a thin long collapsed section --
of hillside edge and overhang --
that has slid down the slope.
There is another one directly below that one.

The meteor hit and resultant crater,
eliminated about one half of another collapsed overhang section,
that has also slipped down the incline slope.
I have inserted 4 white dots to show where the original positions were. 

The bottom image is from another ESA perspective.
They seem to have stretched the image a bit,
but it still helps in viewing two perspectives.
This image is taken from a much lower angle,
and has been manipulated a bit by ESA .
Upper middle of the image,
is the same collapse feature -- in another cut out insert,
with white lines displaying where the overhang shelf was originally positioned.
That is what I intepret Whip

The entire Phelgra landscape is full of collapse features from landslides and avalanches,
in what must be more loosely packed glacial till, 
that is permeated with saline ice and slush not too far under the surface.
Highly active geology out there.
A rover might get buried fast.
We need rover drones.

[Image: Koohv6f.jpg] 

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Reply
#68
(03-26-2018, 02:49 PM)Vianova Wrote: ...

You gotta be kiddin' me !
Did you miss the -- Face -- in the Nereidium Montes image?
Holy Smokes ...
Zip will be calling it a seated Mayan shaman.
Barnsy will have it on youtube,
with references to historic discovery.

...
Itza real historic discovery...  just posting Crater counting juxtaposing
Parts of the Amazon thought uninhabited were actually home to up to a million people

March 27, 2018, University of Exeter

[Image: partsoftheam.jpg]
Aerial photo of one of the structures at Jacó Sá site. Credit: University of Exeter

Parts of the Amazon previously thought to have been almost uninhabited were really home to thriving populations of up to a million people, new research shows.

Archaeologists have uncovered evidence that there were hundreds of villages in the rainforest away from major rivers, and they were home to different communities speaking varied languages who had an impact on the environment around them.

Huge parts of the Amazon are still unexplored by archaeologists, particularly areas away from major rivers. People had assumed ancient communities had preferred to live near these waterways, but the new evidence shows this was not the case.

The discovery fills a major gap in the history of the Amazon, and provides further evidence that the rainforest—once thought to be untouched by human farming or occupation—has in fact been heavily influenced by those who lived in it.
Archaeologists from the University of Exeter found the remains of fortified villages and mysterious earthworks called geoglyphs—man-made ditches with strange square, circular or hexagonal shapes. Experts still don't know the purpose of these earthworks, as some show no evidence of being occupied. It is possible they were used as part of ceremonial rituals.

[Image: 1-partsoftheam.jpg]
Ditched enclosures of the UTB. Credit: University of Exeter

Archaeologists uncovered the remains in the current Brazillian state of Mato Grosso. By analysing charcoal remains and excavated pottery they have found a 1,800 km stretch of southern Amazonia was continuously occupied from 1250 until 1500 by people living in fortified villages. The experts estimate that there would have been between 1,000 and 1,500 enclosed villages, and two-thirds of these sites are yet to be found.

The new study shows there are an estimated 1,300 geoglyphs across 400,000km2 of Southern Amazonia, with 81 found in the area surveyed as part of this research. Villages are often found nearby, or inside the geoglyphs. They are connected through a network of causeways and some have been elaborately constructed over many years.
The earthworks were probably made during seasonal droughts, which allowed forests to be cleared. Drier areas still had fertile soils, where farmers would have been able to grow crops and fruit trees like Brazil nuts.

Dr Jonas Gregorio de Souza, from the University of Exeter's Department of Archaeology, a member of the research team said: "There is a common misconception that the Amazon is an untouched landscape, home to scattered, nomadic communities. This is not the case. We have found that some populations away from the major rivers are much larger than previously thought, and these people had an impact on the environment which we can still find today.
[Image: 2-partsoftheam.jpg]
Compound structure with a small enclosure in the interior of a larger one. Credit: University of Exeter

"The Amazon is crucial to regulating the Earth's climate, and knowing more about its history will help everyone make informed decisions about how it should be cared for in the future."
Professor José Iriarte, from the University of Exeter, another member of the research team, said: "We are so excited to have found such a wealth of evidence. Most of the Amazon hasn't been excavated yet, but studies such as ours mean we are gradually piecing together more and more information about the history of the largest rainforest on the planet
"Our research shows we need to re-evaluate the history of the Amazon. It certainly wasn't an area populated only near the banks of large rivers, and the people who lived there did change the landscape. The area we surveyed had a population of at least tens of thousands."

The research, funded by National Geographic and the European Research Council project PAST, is published in the journal Nature Communications and was carried out by academics from the University of Exeter, Federal University of Pará, Belém, National Institute for Space Research—INPE and the Universidade do Estado de Mato Grosso.

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Hundreds of ancient earthworks built in the Amazon
More information: Jonas Gregorio de Souza et al, Pre-Columbian earth-builders settled along the entire southern rim of the Amazon, Nature Communications (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41467-018-03510-7

Journal reference: Nature Communications [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: University of Exeter


Still not 53 km long though.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#69
...
problem is ... those Amazonian sites are far from anything like a city,
and they are scattered tribal groups in villages spread over over an 1800  km stretch.
And, in only 700 years,
the remnants of their occupation are getting quickly unrecognizable.
On Mars we aren't dealing with ruins that are 500 - 700 years old,
not even close.
So interpreting these artificial land forms in the Amazon,
with what you see on Mars that is obviously beyond ancient ... 
and maybe tens, hundreds of millions of years ... ancient,
I don't think so.


In the case of Barnsy's blur vision cat box scratches in images,
that are being promoted as ...  grids in a city,
we dont know a thing about:
Size of the land forms we are seeing.
Or where they are exactly.
And no access to any original unaltered NASA images,
to allow scrutiny.
Are those cross hatched grids of Barnsy's ... 50 by 100 feet? ... 500 by 1000 feet?
or 50000 by 100000 feet?
or 25 to 50 km?
What is the complete image alteration method?
blahblahblah ..  bullshit 
Barnsy can supply the proper evidence,
The NASA evidence and links, the image locations, size of landforms. etc etc
and until then, his video images are cat box scratches in the kittie litter.

I also don't believe that simple small structural forms,
poorly built in comparison to higher civilization centers constructs,
like remnant structures seen in these Amazon inages,
or in the South African cattle hub formations,
will ever be something that survived on Mars to be seen again in any consequece.

Cities ... technological cities ... on Mars.
What are we looking for?
Cattle herders huts and wimpy simpy jungle village fortifications?
Ancient Rome ... Teotihuacan ... something with some high civilization construction capacity,
is what I assume we are all looking for.
What happened to domed cities and arcologies?
We are looking for remnants of high civilization content.

One thing you might bet on with Mars --- are features similar to Dead Ice Moraines especially, 
then there are ... eskers, terminal moraines 

[Image: 0010.jpg]


and ... ice thrust hills

[Image: 241.jpg]



rolling ground moraines
[Image: 361.jpg]



[Image: Kettle+Lake+Drumlins+Outwash+plain+Till+...Stream.jpg]



eskers 

[Image: eskers%20copy.jpg]




[Image: Group_of_eskers_Atlin_BC.jpg]


see inverted streams - rivers Mars etc

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Reply
#70
...

Back in Juventae at the 53 km Ziggurat Whistle

Wikipedia has a direct overhead image of the Ziggurat arched gate.
A completely different perspective indeed.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c...mosaic.jpg

Check out those collapsed giant gate fortification columns and bearing walls   Reefer
It certainly is revealing when you see several perspectives of a land form,
from NASA imaging and processing.
The other images looked like a much narrower taller arch,
and you could not see much detail of the collapsed facade.
This image shows the whole face front of the arch like feature pretty well actually.
It is a bit unusual for that huge section to be collasping out like that,
and nowhere else along the base is there another like it.

[Image: T2f7PPc.jpg]



And from the same image --- far bottom right corner,
this outstanding geologic example of a crater,
being completely infilled by a flow of mud.
The mud flow comes in from the upper right of the crater -- fills the entire crater in, 
and then pushes through the crater wall on the bottom left, and out.

I noticed the dark patch of landscape,
just up to the right a bit from the center of the crater.
Image shows:
an image sectional insert -- double magnification,
then the lower image,
has been magnified again.
there it is  Hi 

A city on Mars -- "hidden in plain sight by ESA" --
as Barnsy would say.  

--- It's Mad Max in Barnsytown ---on ancient Mars   Rofl

Reefer

[Image: Ri6b672.jpg]


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Reply
#71
...
take the high magnification image,
at the bottom of the last composite image in my last post above,
and -- turn it into -- grey scale -- or black and white -- then apply heavy contrast and such,
and you will wash out the pixelation and round into more emerging rectangularated forms.



Near Juvantae chasma -- inverted stream channels -- 

https://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_003724_1755
Inverted-Relief Channels Near Juventae Chasma
https://static.uahirise.org/images/2011/...4_1755.jpg
[Image: PSP_003724_1755.jpg]



zoom browze
https://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/E...browse.jpg
[Image: PSP_003724_1755_RED.abrowse.jpg]



top left --- pyramidal form emerges near inverted stream channels erosional landscape

[Image: uP9fWMY.jpg]


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Reply
#72
...

recent chance of astrobiology on Mars
Coprates Chasma -- Valles marineris -- volcanos

http://theconversation.com/scientists-fi...life-81345

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault....lery/27504
Recent volcanic activity and hydrothermal minerals on Mars

Along with the existence of volcanoes on the floor of the eastern  Valles Marineris, their young ages is the second surprise of this study. "In geological terms, the volcanic cones are very young, just 200 to 400 million years in age," 

http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault....lery/27504


[Image: Mars_Vulkane_HiRISE__xl.tif]


https://hirise-pds.lpl.arizona.edu/PDS/E...browse.jpg


[Image: RihVgmg.jpg]

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Reply
#73
Gorillaz in the room.

Quote:#928


#928

Exclusive: Massive Ancient Drawings Found in Peruvian Desert National Geographic

[Image: nasca-illustration.adapt.1900.1.jpg]

#928
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#74
...
That last article is highly recommended reading.

Noting the datings of the cultures with figural geoglyphs,
and the more prevalent later Nazca lines.



Quote:Researchers surveying in southern Peru with drones 
have captured images of ancient geoglyphs, 
and more than 50 of the massive ancient drawings are considered new discoveries by archaeologists.

Etched into the high desert of southern Peru more than a millennium ago, 
the enigmatic Nasca lines 
continue to capture our imagination. 
More than a thousand of these geoglyphs (literally, 'ground drawings') 
sprawl across the sandy soil of Nasca province, 
the remains
of little-understood ritual practices
that may have been connected to --- life-giving rain.


Now, Peruvian archaeologists armed with drones 
have discovered more than 50 new examples 
of these mysterious desert monuments in adjacent Palpa province, 
traced onto the earth's surface in lines almost too fine to see with the human eye. 
In addition, archaeologists surveyed locally known geoglyphs with drones for the first time—
mapping them in never-before-seen detail.

Some of the newfound lines belong to the Nasca culture, 

which held sway in the area from 200 to 700 A.D. 

However, archaeologists suspect that the earlier Paracas and Topará cultures 
carved many of the newfound images between 500 B.C. and 200 A.D.


The above earlier cultures carved most of the figural geoglyphs on hillsides.
Those are a lot different than the later Nazca flat surface lines.

When I looked hard at the image EA posted -- from the article link,
this exactly came to my mind:

" the remains of little-understood ritual practices,
that may have been connected to life-giving rain. "

there may have been an -- agricultural -- component to the lines,
and especially the circles:

[Image: nasca-illustration.adapt.1900.1.jpg]

that may be a water retention scheme when more water was available in those times

Hmm2
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Reply
#75
...

Barnsy released his new Cydonia video,
to introduce his Cydonia nonsense.
Let's look at Barnsy's Cydonia images,
what I called:
Cat box scratches in the kittie litter <---

I realize now what is happening here.
There are too many people attempting to cash in on all the old style Mars anomaly discoveries.
Everybody wants to be first to find a new giant Face, 

another giant geoglyphic form,

a 53 kilometer Worship Annunaki ziggurat Reefer

From a set of feeble ruins, or to a Trantorian metropolis that stretches across half of the planet.
Barnsy's Cydonia is essentially,
a variation on the 2007  Laney imaging of Cydonia,
which RCH and others overprocessed onto their websites,
as evidence of a city grid of ruins under the dirt in the dirty ice.
Blue colored renditions of a "city grid of ruins"are still up on an RCH link.

Image -- top section -- shows:
Barnsy's overall city grid in Cydonia.
and
The section of three images below that:
1. City grid ruins and "structures"  going up and over crater walls filling all craters. 
2. City grids and "structures" defacing and inundating the D & M
3. The Face intruded with "structures" and surrounding city grid ruins 

[Image: xMbT4zO.jpg]



Next image:
close up of Barnsy's image alteration and torturing of the D & M.
There is nothing like this in any of Keiths recent --- D & M renditions.
Nothing.
Somebody --- anyone --- show me these city grid ruins <---
and "structures"
that are covering the D & M in Keith's recent image processings <---

[Image: flzgi6J.jpg]



landform next to the D&M in Barnsytown Cydonia
[Image: ERyCuzD.jpg]


There are no structures,
or city grid ruins,
on the D & M.
It is a pyramid, not a grouping of ruins all over the pyramid.

Keith's latest D & M images
show me the ruins and and structures on the surface of the D & M --- anyone <--
Keith? RCH? ... anyone ... 

http://thehiddenmission.com/D&M/D&M.htm
[Image: D&M-perspective4.jpg]


next image:
Barnsy's  --- 5 mile wall -- quote from his video -- smack dab in the middle of Cydonia
 
[Image: QEab6Lh.jpg]



What do you want to bet,
that in other glacial areas with wide flat surfaces on Mars, 
we see such similar features? -- 

Reefer

...
Reply
#76
Recall:

Not A Simian Accounting

A cosmic gorilla effect could blind the detection of aliens

Date:April 10, 2018Source:FECYT - Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology

[Image: 180410132835_1_540x360.jpg]
Inside the Occator crater of the dwarf planet Ceres appears a strange structure, looking like a square inside a triangle.

Credit: NASA / JPL-Caltech

A well-known experiment with young people bouncing a ball showed that when an observer focuses on counting the passes, he does not detect if someone crosses the stage disguised as a gorilla. According to researchers at the University of Cádiz (Spain), something similar could be happening to us when we try to discover intelligent non-earthly signals, which perhaps manifest themselves in dimensions that escape our perception, such as the unknown dark matter and energy.
One of the problems that have long intrigued experts in cosmology is how to detect possible extraterrestrial signals. Are we really looking in the right direction? Maybe not, according to the study that the neuropsychologists Gabriel de la Torre and Manuel García, from the University of Cádiz, publish in the journal Acta Astronautica.
"When we think of other intelligent beings, we tend to see them from our perceptive and conscience sieve; however we are limited by our sui generis vision of the world, and it's hard for us to admit it," says De la Torre, who prefers to avoid the terms 'extraterrestrial' or aliens by its Hollywood connotations and use another more generic, as 'non-terrestrial'.
"What we are trying to do with this differentiation is to contemplate other possibilities -- he says-, for example, beings of dimensions that our mind cannot grasp; or intelligences based on dark matter or energy forms, which make up almost 95% of the universe and which we are only beginning to glimpse. There is even the possibility that other universes exist, as the texts of Stephen Hawking and other scientists indicate."
The authors state that our own neurophysiology, psychology and consciousness can play an important role in the search for non-terrestrial civilizations; an aspect that they consider has been neglected until now.
In relation to this, they conducted an experiment with 137 people, who had to distinguish aerial photographs with artificial structures (buildings, roads ...) from others with natural elements (mountains, rivers ...). In one of the images, a tiny character disguised as a gorilla was inserted to see if the participants noticed.
This test was inspired by the one carried out by the researchers Christopher Chabris and Daniel Simons in the 90s to show the inattention blindness of the human being. A boy in a gorilla costume could walk in front of a scene, gesticulating, while the observers were busy in something else (counting the ball passes of players in white shirts), and more than half did not notice.
"It is very striking, but very significant and representative at the same time, how our brain works," says De la Torre, who explains how the results were similar in the case of his experiment with the images. "In addition, our surprise was greater," he adds, "since before doing the test to see the inattentional blindness we assessed the participants with a series of questions to determine their cognitive style (if they were more intuitive or rational), and it turned out that the intuitive individuals identified the gorilla of our photo more times than those more rational and methodical."
"If we transfer this to the problem of searching for other non-terrestrial intelligences, the question arises about whether our current strategy may result in us not perceiving the gorilla," stresses the researcher, who insists: "Our traditional conception of space is limited by our brain, and we may have the signs above and be unable to see them. Maybe we're not looking in the right direction."
Another example presented in the article is an apparently geometric structure that can be seen in the images of Occator, a crater of the dwarf planet Ceres famous for its bright spots. "Our structured mind tells us that this structure looks like a triangle with a square inside, something that theoretically is not possible in Ceres," says De la Torre, "but maybe we are seeing things where there are none, what in psychology is called pareidolia."
However, the neuropsychologist points out another possibility: "The opposite could also be true. We can have the signal in front of us and not perceive it or be unable to identify it. If this happened, it would be an example of the cosmic gorilla effect. In fact, it could have happened in the past or it could be happening right now."
Three types of intelligent civilizations
In their study, the authors also pose how different classes of intelligent civilizations could be. They present a classification with three types based on five factors: biology, longevity, psychosocial aspects, technological progress and distribution in space.
An example of Type 1 civilizations is ours, which could be ephemeral if it mishandles technology or planetary resources, or if it does not survive a cataclysm. But it could also evolve into a Type 2 civilization, characterized by the long longevity of its members, who control quantum and gravitational energy, manage space-time and are able to explore galaxies.
"We were well aware that the existing classifications are too simplistic and are generally only based on the energy aspect. The fact that we use radio signals does not necessarily mean that other civilizations also use them, or that the use of energy resources and their dependence are the same as we have," the researchers point out, recalling the theoretical nature of their proposals.
The third type of intelligent civilization, the most advanced, would be constituted by exotic beings, with an eternal life, capable of creating in multidimensional and multiverse spaces, and with an absolute dominion of dark energy and matter.

Journal Reference:
  1. Gabriel G. De la Torre, Manuel A. Garcia. The cosmic gorilla effect or the problem of undetected non terrestrial intelligent signals. Acta Astronautica, 2018; 146: 83 DOI: 10.1016/j.actaastro.2018.02.036

FECYT - Spanish Foundation for Science and Technology. "A cosmic gorilla effect could blind the detection of aliens." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 10 April 2018.
<www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180410132835.htm>.




Today mform ain't working on his presentation.
The lazy phase he is in bespeaks of one who has been monitoring the board and is bored.





Tobias Owen  ...  To Bias Own

Quote: Wrote:Recall:
Because the study game purposely varied where the squares appeared on the left or right side of the visual field, the data also added more evidence for a discovery Miller and colleagues first reported back in 2009: Visual working memory is distinct for each side of the visual field. People have independent capacities on their left and their right, research has confirmed.


The Miller Lab is now working on a new study that tracks how the three regions interact when working memory information must be shared across the visual field.


The emotions we feel may shape what we see

April 11, 2018, Association for Psychological Science

[Image: 5863ab20c0cdf.jpg]
Credit: CC0 Public Domain
Our emotional state in a given moment may influence what we see, according to findings published in Psychological Science, a journal of the Association for Psychological Science. In two experiments, researchers found that participants saw a neutral face as smiling more when it was paired with an unseen positive image.

The research shows that humans are active perceivers, say psychological scientist Erika Siegel of the University of California, San Francisco and her coauthors.
"We do not passively detect information in the world and then react to it - we construct perceptions of the world as the architects of our own experience. Our affective feelings are a critical determinant of the experience we create," the researchers explain. "That is, we do not come to know the world through only our external senses - we see the world differently when we feel pleasant or unpleasant."
In previous studies, Siegel and colleagues found that influencing people's emotional states outside of conscious awareness shifted their first impressions of neutral faces, making faces seem more or less likeable, trustworthy, and reliable. In this research, they wanted to see if changing people's emotional states outside awareness might actually change how they see the neutral faces.
Using a technique called continuous flash suppression, the researchers were able to present stimuli to participants without them knowing it. In one experiment, 43 participants had a series of flashing images, which alternated between a pixelated image and a neutral face, presented to their dominant eye. At the same time, a low-contrast image of a smiling, scowling, or neutral face was presented to their nondominant eye - typically, this image will be suppressed by the stimulus presented to the dominant eye and participants will not consciously experience it.
At the end of each trial, a set of five faces appeared and participants picked the one that best matched the face they saw during the trial.
The face that was presented to participants' dominant eye was always neutral. But they tended to select faces that were smiling more as the best match if the image that was presented outside of their awareness showed a person who was smiling as opposed to neutral or scowling

In a second experiment, the researchers included an objective measure of awareness, asking participants to guess the orientation of the suppressed face.
[Image: 16848645400_bbbcf39d30_o.jpg]
Those who correctly guessed the orientation at better than chance levels were not included in subsequent analyses. Again, the results indicated that unseen positive faces changed participants' perception of the visible neutral face.


Given that studies often show negative stimuli as having greater influence on behavior and decision making, the robust effect of positive faces in this research is intriguing and an interesting area for future exploration, the researchers note.
Siegel and colleagues add that their findings could have broad, real-world implications that extend from everyday social interactions to situations with more severe consequences, such as when judges or jury members have to evaluate whether a defendant is remorseful.
Ultimately, these experiments provide further evidence that what we see is not a direct reflection of the world but a mental representation of the world that is infused by our emotional experiences.

More information: Erika H. Siegel et al, Seeing What You Feel: Affect Drives Visual Perception of Structurally Neutral Faces, Psychological Science (2018). DOI: 10.1177/0956797617741718

Journal reference: Psychological Science [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Association for Psychological Science
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-04-emotions.html

This is oriented on the same solstice ground-plan/lay-out @ ~33.3 degrees as refered to in diagram.

[Image: CHAdHdF.jpg]

[Image: YfHYHmW.jpg]rotate ~33.3 degrees.

Vianova's work makes sense and if 33.3 is confirmed as the angle of itz tilt like the rest of "The City" then it is a total paradox why that is where it is.
[Image: 16848645400_bbbcf39d30_o.jpg]33.3 degree grid cydonia by electric_ashalar, on Flickr
You can't just make up faces.

They need a semi-plausible context.

[Image: 2179268716_ff58f1382c_z.jpg?zz=1]


I see artifacts Sheep you see artifacts.

Marsform or Mform for short.
Tell me about Mars' FORM.

While you are being a hidden missiion lounge lizard.

Describe: The form of planet Mars.
Reply
#77
...
That 33.3 degree image is from Max the Knife?

is it ... 33.3 .... or 33.3333333333~ ~  not that it matters.

Max doesn't know what exact angle that is Nonono
and neither do I,
but a slight hair of a protractor angle of measure difference,
can produce other important angles.

He is extrapolating lines and geometries from a funky old image which is the first error.
Though the drawn lines he extrapolated are interesting,
they are still unattributable in any exactness of angle measure at all.

First look at 33.3333333 degrees ... it has no bearing on any ancient angle tangents,
or important modern geometry constructs either.

If you want me to cut to the chase,
here it is.

The premier angle,
that you would want to see there in Max's image ... anywhere close to 33.3 degrees,
that ties into --- ancient Earth Giza pyramid geometries,
as seen in my tetrahedral and square hexad geometry images that EA posted,

would be:
arctangent {7 / 11}  = {2 / aPi}  ... for  32.47119229 degrees ... {aPi = 22 / 7}
or
if you want to adhere to modern Pi,
that is closely followed by: 
arctangent {2 / Pi} ...  for  32.48163659 degrees.

Those are the only two angles that I can think of  currently,
that derive from the important ancient and modern geometry perspectives,
that would fit the possibilities in that infrastructure of lines in Max's image.

...
Reply
#78
Doh

I was attempting to begin to explain sum-thing to Marsform Barney using your work and was leading up to it... then Max cut in,lol!
Quote:That 33.3 degree image is from Max the Knife?

is it ... 33.3 .... or 33.3333333333~ ~  not that it matters.

Max had nothing to do with the post aside from being a former poster and an image hoster.

I could have just as easily sent you here@ link below but I hate when a forum member needs to go off site in a new window and just used one of max's old throw-away image arguements.
Quote:I typed in the searchbar on google:

solstice alignment 33.3 degrees north of east  cydonia  face on mars

result: Arrow

https://books.google.ca/books?id=srxWAgA...rs&f=false
Now that you mentioned what was NOT my intention wich was the graphic...not wich website it came from I will post its providence since I have it shown in prominence.

I never intentionally intoned Max and his angular moments besides linking his image of Carlotto's work but before I post on Marsform's case.
If you want me to cut to the chase,
here it is.
Now that we can summarize Max before we get back to Mform,since the subject was broached.

Recall:

Max -a-million angles made the mistake of thinking I drew a line.

Then I drew a line and he got caught fudging data right here in our presence destroying his 'precision' in the precession.
 
Max was drawing flat Lines when great circles or arcs were in order.

Meridians and lines of latitude are an example of such imaginary mark-up.

But they are curvilinear and are not tangenital to the surface of the sphere.

Max's Mark-ups missed the mark.

The vast scale of the area that encompasses the anomalies in the cydonian region fall apart the farther the distance between 'alignments'


I didn't mean to bring Max into the mix and I hope my next few posts clarify my discussion of 'context' .

Sorry to Max that he was mentioned by proxy... Cry .





Back to mform and the general caveat of plausible context.(wich he so far lacks)

While Vianova and I can also continue our discussion because, well,basically you don't wan't to discuss much Mform Barney.

I asked you to correlate(basically directly overlay Matching structures) Sheep  with anything Keith has published.

Vic.
Use Carlotto Image instead,not max's copy.
Moving on...

Final clarification...max ain't the point.,my bad.

Point was towards how the pentad fits into a soltice scheme...if at all?

Is the pentad the Point? Arrow 
Quote:Those are the only two angles that I can think of  currently,

that derive from the important ancient and modern geometry perspectives,
that would fit the possibilities in that infrastructure of lines in Max's image.

I would like to see how the pentad relates to Mark Carlotto's 33.3 degree soslticial theory as opposed to Crater and MacDaniels grid.
With a Cydonio-Centric Slant @ ~33.3
The ideal perspective is Nadir God's-Eye-View of the Sphere directly beneath itz vantage.
Viking was all they had to work with.


And we'll toss in the fact that Hoagland came up with the solstice alignment theory from a central vantage point on the ground.
From the City square through the mouth of the face on mars  @ ~23.5 degrees... wich is a groundview and differential.
https://books.google.ca/books?id=srxWAgA...rs&f=false
Quote: He is(Max) extrapolating lines and geometries from a funky old image which is the first error.

Nope.
I meant Carlotto's extrapolation.
Carlotto averaged EVERYTHING out and the sum-total is what the stones speak as a whole locale.
~33.3 @ Viking Version of God's-Eye-View

Essentially His words not mine.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#79
Quote:EA: Not A Simian Accounting
Added and attributed to you in THE LIST

Bob... Ninja Assimilated
"The Morning Light, No sensation to compare to this, suspended animation, state of bliss, I keep my eyes on the circling sky, tongue tied and twisted just and Earth Bound Martian I" Learning to Fly Pink Floyd [Video: https://vimeo.com/144891474]
Reply
#80
...
quote EA

Quote:I would like to see how the pentad 
relates to Mark Carlotto's 33.3 degree soslticial theory as opposed to Crater and MacDaniels grid.

With a Cydonio-Centric Slant @ ~33.3


The Cydonia Mounds tetrahedral pentad and hexad have nothing to do with 33.3 degrees.


That 33.3 degree angle works absolutely nothing in:
square root two tetrahedral geometry
square root three hexagonal geometry
square root five pentagonal phi geometry 

Like I said,
there are good hits around that area of 33.3 degrees ...

arctan {2 / Pi} = 32.48163659  degrees

There is a great one at 34.19264919 degrees  Reefer
that would be tangent {231 / 340}.
That would be a dandy.

I don't like Carlotto's solstice scheme,
because his angle as defined at 33.3 degrees,
does nothing to extrapolate into important geometry constructs IMO.
The Pentad and Hexad draw upon the tetrahedral building blocks of the universe. 

Carlotto's factor of error,
in placement of the solstice alignments over the long time frames he suggests,
may be significant.

...
Reply
#81
Quote:The Cydonia Mounds tetrahedral pentad and hexad have nothing to do with 33.3 degrees.


That 33.3 degree angle works absolutely nothing in:
square root two tetrahedral geometry
square root three hexagonal geometry
square root five pentagonal phi geometry

Not in the sense of exactly what you say in your quote.

I mean.
 
How are the mounds 'situated' in the orientation?

So I grabbed an image off of google that might help illustrate my point.

"Below is an image taken by the Mars Orbiter in 2012 (click the image for an enlargement). [Image: cydonia-mars-face-area-1024x576.jpg]The position of the 6 mounds in the article and the “Mars face” [photo: MRO HiRISE CTX D21_035487_2215_XN_41N009W] http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2017/03/far-f...s-on-mars/

You can see it is not Crater/ McDaniel /Carlotto Gridded.

You will note the Western platform side of the Face and itz eye peeking into view at top right.

In a simple experiment utilizing an image that covers most of the area in question I cut and pasted the face and dragged it to the pentad and drew a white line to join A/B and G/D

You can see in the example below that it snaps right into place with the face in orient.

[Image: 40582083095_c4e9df4f76_o.jpg]

All I was 'getting at' was easy enough to visualize.

The face is ~aligned with the Pentad(Or Vice-Versa) from the ~God's-Eye View

I never said anything about

Quote:does nothing to extrapolate into important geometry constructs IMO.

The Pentad and Hexad draw upon the tetrahedral building blocks of the universe.

I extrapolated the geometry construct into the Face Features in simple steps.

I said "Cydonia-Centric".
Using the Face as The Fundimental building block of Cydonia.

The stones speak.

Crater/McDaniel A/B = G/E = Face = ~33.3 Carlotto

Why is your Pentad work aligned with the Face and therefore the Grid?

No Matter what the Pentad means,Why is it where it is?
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#82
...
Sorry,
the only thing you did was prove that AB and GE are parallel.
You have to prove that there is a "33.3 degree" angle 
in the pentad ...
It does not exist,
and the Pentad does not align with 33.3 degrees to the face like Carlotto's proposed city grid,
from what I can see from your blurry old image.

Placement of a -- piece of the Face -- over the Pentad made no sense,
and has little accuracy in it's attempt ---> to define AB and GE as lengths.

Secondly if you want me to follow your ideas,
you need to get your data straight:

Quote:In a simple experiment utilizing an image that covers most of the area in question,
I cut and pasted the face and dragged it to the pentad  Doh
 and
drew a white line to join A/B and G/D

you dragged and pasted --- HALF a Face,
and then when you displayed the image ... 
you didn't even get the lettering correct in your above quote!

Your image has ... AB and GE <---

I am not here to do peoples homework for them,
and that includes,
Carlotto.

You are confusing a --->  35.26438968 degree ---> tetrahedral angle,
or arctangent sqrt {1 / 2},
with
33.3 degrees,  {two completely different and dissimilar tangents},
by extrapolating from a small blurry image, 
and eyeballing what you think is accuracy.

You did not display where true east is either.
Are you trying to say that line PEB is due east <-----  ?
I don't know, so you prove that.


You are going to have to do better than what you presented, and how,
if you want me to respond again.

Carlotto's angle was lazily and hazily described as 33.3 degrees.
That is an excuse of an angle  Naughty
What Carlotto probably means is ... ---> 33.333333333333~ degrees ... ?

My point was that there is no true data seen,
to prove anything about the placements,
or determinations of Carlotto's Cydonia "solstices" ...

We somewhat take it by faith that he is absolutley correct in all his ancient Mars math,
and most in particular -- the solstice alignments, that he derives his math from.

You need to be on the ground in Cydonia to make those precision observations.
Carlotto found it prudent to round off to 33.3 degrees, 
because he is uncertain of his own accuracy in the whole presentation.

You can slop lines all over any map.
If you want to get from point A to point B in a straight line,
you perform high accuracy compass readings and distance calculations.

If you accept sloppy percentages of error as accuracy,
you can claim anything to be accurate.

That is why I suggested that a plethora of angles may apply,
that are very close to ... 33.3 degrees. 

When you use a protractor on the computer screen,
with Carlotto's -- due east -- as a guideline --- then it does look like about 33+ degrees,
as the grid line angle from the city to the face. 

Carlotto's angle is not 33.3 degrees   ... or 33.3333333333333333 degrees ...

The whole game in Cydonia from the beginning,
were layouts of Cydonia city grids <---  
chock full of Sacred Universal Geometries ...
full of Phi, 
and Pi, 
and square roots, and on and on,
with mostly awful and reprehensible grid maps from numerous researchers.


So, if you want to bulldog down,
on that angle of 33.3 degrees <---> as being most appropriate,
and Whip
you want some killer format of:
---> Cydonian Sacred Geometry <--- to define that angle ...
then, 
that angle is:

33.3333223  degrees  Reefer
and
that angle 
has an angle tangent <--- 
where the ultimate ancient Worship sacred geometry code resides,
which would make Carlotto's city grid presentation,
rather gloriously ressurrected in rapture, 
riding a golden chariot flying high up into Mars Heaven,

if Whip
Carlotto is correct in the first place about the ... Cydonian solstice alignments <---
That is a really big IF ...

No Nonono I am not going to do Carlotto's homework for him, 
or for EA,
even if I am the only Barsoomian hero Smoke
that can actually ferret out the ancient codes --- with true accuracy and precision <---

I still have no tangible proof,
that Carlotto's determinations on the Cydonia solstice have any true merit,
and Carlotto himself,
in the written caption seen in EA's original image of the 33.3 degree angle,
clearly indicates that he is not that certain either.


33.3333223  degrees   Hi




for now, that angle tangent is tidy and neat in my back pocket, 
and I might play it out in the pyramid thread some day.

...
Reply
#83
(04-16-2018, 04:18 AM)Vianova Wrote: ...
Sorry,

No problemo,I see where I've confused you.

the only thing you did was prove that AB and GE are parallel.

Have I?


You have to prove that there is a "33.3 degree" angle 
in the pentad ...
It does not exist,

I totally agree ,not where I was headed.
To clarify:
Nowhere within the the mounds and resultant lines between points known as PGEADB exists a ~33.3 of any sort angle or otherwise.
There is NOT a 33.3 degree angle of any sort within that graph between points unless you know sum-thing I clearly don't.


and the Pentad does not align with 33.3 degrees to the face like Carlotto's proposed city grid,

That's what I am Wondering about. I am unsure,are you?

from what I can see from your blurry old image.

That's why instead of old Viking ,I used : http://viewer.mars.asu.edu/planetview/in...1N009W&T=2
From this website because he already made nice circles and an arrow pointing at the face...he did my scribbles for me and put the letters at each mound,thanx whoever that dude is.

MRO HiRISE CTX D21_035487_2215_XN_41N009W] http://www.pepijnvanerp.nl/2017/03/far-f...s-on-mars/
I don't know wich orbiter or camera/resolution you prefer...pick one.

Placement of a -- piece of the Face -- over the Pentad made no sense,
and has little accuracy in it's attempt ---> to define AB and GE as lengths.

I wasn't defining lengths I was using the "in context" slice of the face they provided,I didn't take the image,and I did not rotate it/wich preserved itz "Natural repose.

We can all agree that the part of the face that IS showing is the western side of the platform with parallel base and ridge.
I couldn't put in the whole face because it ain't there...but if I superimposed the face from another image you surely would rightfully reject that. So I didn't.


Secondly if you want me to follow your ideas,
you need to get your data straight:

You can't exactly follow me when I travel to meet you.

Quote:In a simple experiment utilizing an image that covers most of the area in question,
I cut and pasted the face and dragged it to the pentad 
 and
drew a white line to join A/B and G/D

you dragged and pasted --- HALF a Face,
and then when you displayed the image ... 
you didn't even get the lettering correct in your above quote!

Actually I didn't get the QWERTY correct.
I didn't even get the lettering correct E is above D!
Callused mover's fingers typo...oops. 


Your image has ... AB and GE <---

I'll edit that,Thanx for the note.

I am not here to do peoples homework for them,
and that includes,
Carlotto.

The auto-proofreader didn't get GD was supposed to be GE...bad proofreader. Lol.

You are confusing a --->  35.26438968 degree ---> tetrahedral angle,
or arctangent sqrt {1 / 2},
with
33.3 degrees,  {two completely different and dissimilar tangents},

I don't claim there is a 33.3 of any sort...recall: I confused you.

by extrapolating from a small blurry image, 
and eyeballing what you think is accuracy.

I cut and pasted the face and dragged it to the pentad 

 and
drew a white line to join A/B and G/D


Got my words mixed.

Edit:

I
drew a white line aligned to the base and then  cut and pasted the face portion and dragged it to the pentad   to join A/B and G/E


Aside from the small blurry part,not exactly like so.
you dragged and pasted --- HALF a Face,
What I did was eyeballed the liine and drew it on the little slice in the corner first.
I copied exactly enough of the visible slice that also captured the line of the face base.
Then I clicked "Undo" and the line dissapeared exept in the square-like area I selected in my clipboard and pasted it between the mounds .
That is the exact same line in both images pre-eyeballed then taken "From" the face and transposed.
I did NOT prove prove that AB and GE are parallel...have I?


You did not display where true east is either.

Didn't dawn on me as a requirement.
I can try...but we'll have to use the same shitty ol' image. MRO HiRISE CTX D21_035487_2215_XN_41N009W]
Unless you prefer your own Orbiter/Camera/Dataset...whatever works for you.


Are you trying to say that line PEB is due east <-----  ?

That sounds the easiest thing out of the bunch to look into,I'll try google mars.
What would it mean if they are so aligned?


I don't know, so you prove that.


I can try...but we'll have to use google mars ,or the same shitty ol' image. MRO HiRISE CTX D21_035487_2215_XN_41N009W]
Unless you prefer your own Orbiter/Camera/Dataset...whatever works for you.

You are going to have to do better than what you presented, and how,
if you want me to respond again.

Pick your Orbiter/Camera/Dataset...whatever works for you.

Carlotto's angle was lazily and hazily described as 33.3 degrees.
That is an excuse of an angle  Naughty
What Carlotto probably means is ... ---> 33.333333333333~ degrees ... ?

From what I read I didn't get 'lazy' more like...bayesian inference really.

My point was that there is no true data seen,
to prove anything about the placements,
or determinations of Carlotto's Cydonia "solstices" ...

Thats why I brought it up.

Quote:Point was towards how the pentad fits into a solstice scheme...if at all?


Is the pentad the Point? [Image: arrow.png] 


We somewhat take it by faith that he is absolutley correct in all his ancient Mars math,
and most in particular -- the solstice alignments, that he derives his math from.

Not taking it by faith...actively inquiring.

You need to be on the ground in Cydonia to make those precision observations.
Carlotto found it prudent to round off to 33.3 degrees, 
because he is uncertain of his own accuracy in the whole presentation.

Yeah.Since were not (In Situ) so all I can say Vic is What dataset will suffice to be as accurate as you like...if it doesn't exist Sheep use the next best thing.

You can slop lines all over any map.
If you want to get from point A to point B in a straight line,
you perform high accuracy compass readings and distance calculations.

Google mars is the next best thing?


If you accept sloppy percentages of error as accuracy,
you can claim anything to be accurate.

Google mars is the next best thing?

That is why I suggested that a plethora of angles may apply,
that are very close to ... 33.3 degrees. 

When you use a protractor on the computer screen,
with Carlotto's -- due east -- as a guideline --- then it does look like about 33+ degrees,
as the grid line angle from the city to the face. 

Google mars is the next best thing?

Carlotto's angle is not 33.3 degrees   ... or 33.3333333333333333 degrees ...

The whole game in Cydonia from the beginning,
were layouts of Cydonia city grids <---  
chock full of Sacred Universal Geometries ...
full of Phi, 
and Pi, 
and square roots, and on and on,
with mostly awful and reprehensible grid maps from numerous researchers.


So, if you want to bulldog down,
on that angle of 33.3 degrees <---> as being most appropriate,
and Whip
you want some killer format of:
---> Cydonian Sacred Geometry <--- to define that angle ...
then, 
that angle is:

33.3333223  degrees  Reefer
and
that angle 
has an angle tangent <--- 
where the ultimate ancient Worship sacred geometry code resides,
which would make Carlotto's city grid presentation,
rather gloriously ressurrected in rapture, 
riding a golden chariot flying high up into Mars Heaven,

if Whip
Carlotto is correct in the first place about the ... Cydonian solstice alignments <---
That is a really big IF ...




No Nonono I am not going to do Carlotto's homework for him, 
or for EA,
even if I am the only Barsoomian hero Smoke
that can actually ferret out the ancient codes --- with true accuracy and precision <---

Your not doing homework for me,more like correcting a student.
I won't get very far if I don't know wich "Cydonia" you want via Orbiter/Camera/Dataset

Sorry to sully the pages with sloppy ol' images.
Pick your preference beside impossible in-situ-ation.



I still have no tangible proof,
that Carlotto's determinations on the Cydonia solstice have any true merit,
and Carlotto himself,
in the written caption seen in EA's original image of the 33.3 degree angle,
clearly indicates that he is not that certain either.


33.3333223  degrees   Hi




for now, that angle tangent is tidy and neat in my back pocket, 
and I might play it out in the pyramid thread some day.

...

To be clear:
Nowhere within the the mounds and resultant lines between points known as PGEADB exists a ~33.3 of any sort angle or otherwise.
There is NOT a 33.3 degree angle of any sort within that graph between points unless you know sum-thing I clearly don't.



For now,if you don't like MRO HiRISE CTX D21_035487_2215_XN_41N009W]

Find an image you can agree that we can work with.


Quote:Are you trying to say that line PEB is due east <-----  ?

There is the Crux.
Wich Image do you want to determine that by?
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#84
Quote:You can slop lines all over any map.
If you want to get from point A to point B in a straight line,
you perform high accuracy compass readings and distance calculations.




But what, exactly, is this organisation, and what might be its role in visual perception? Petreanu and Marques report several insights that shed light onto this long-standing mystery.
Feedback connections tell the big picture
The first insight occurred when the researchers asked whether the connections follow any particular pattern. Their guess was that they do.
"In many separate structures of the visual system, beginning with the eye itself, neighboring neurons encode neighboring areas of the visual space.

Quote:by extrapolating from a small blurry image, 

1:1 binning. Hardwired Sloppy! LilD

and eyeballing what you think is accuracy.

This way, the individual structures contain an almost one-to-one map of the image," Marques explains.

This map exists in the primary visual cortex (also called V1), which is the entry point of visual information to the neocortex. This was the researchers' starting point. They asked: whether feedback connections matched the visual map encoded in V1.

"The answer we found was yes and no," Marques says. "The majority of feedback inputs formed the same spatial map as the areas they connected to in V1. In other words, the V1 and feedback maps were superimposed on each other. This observation had already been reported in other species, such as primates, so we weren't surprised. However, in the mouse, we also observed something new. The feedback connections also encoded information from further locations in the visual space. Since the technique we used is novel and has only been applied here, it is likely that this might be found in the future in other species as well."
This finding suggests that feedback signals sent from higher cortical areas are used to provide lower structures with context. "According to the hierarchical structure of the visual system, lower structures would only have access to local, low-level information," Marques explains. "What the feedback connections give them is the whole picture. This way, the activity of neurons in lower structures can be altered according to the current context. This type of contextual information is very important for visual perception. For instance, a round, green shape seen at a distance would be readily identified as a tennis ball when seen in the context of a tennis court, or as an apple if seen in the context of a fruit bowl."
Telling the brain where not to look
This first discovery motivated the researchers to look even further into what other types of information the feedback connections might be sending to V1. This time, they asked whether these connections might help V1 neurons find objects. "The world is made up of objects," Petreanu explains. "The phone in your hand, the cars on the road, these are all objects that are defined by continuous lines. Therefore, it's not surprising that neurons in the visual system care a lot about these lines."
How could feedback connections help accentuate the lines that make up objects? There are two possibilities—they can either amplify the activity in V1 where the lines are, or they can dampen activity where they are not supposed to be.
"We found that the second option is the most likely to be true," says Petreanu. "The feedback connections were abundant in V1 in areas outside the lines. We therefore hypothesise that this organisation is probably silencing neurons in the areas that lie outside the line, and thereby enhancing the contrast between objects and their surroundings."

Scientists discover hidden structure of enigmatic 'backwards' neural connections
April 16, 2018, Champalimaud Centre for the Unknown

[Image: 34-scientistsdi.jpg]
The existence of 'backwards' neural connections linking distant areas of the neocortex -- the part of the brain responsible for higher cognitive functions -- have baffled scientists for decades. Credit: Marques et al.

For decades, the neuroscience community has been baffled by the existence of dense connections in the brain that seem to be going "backwards." These connections, which span extensively across distant areas of the neocortex, are clearly conveying important information. But until now, the organization of the connections, and therefore their possible role, was largely unknown.

In a study published today in the scientific journal Nature Neuroscience, scientists at the Champalimaud Centre for the Unknown in Lisbon report for the first time that these connections form an exquisitely organised map of the visual space and provide important insights into how they may be involved in visual perception.
"Our current understanding of the visual system suggests a hierarchical model," explains Leopoldo Petreanu, the leading researcher of the study. "According to this model, lower structures receive an image from the eyes, which is then processed and relayed forward to higher structures of the neocortex for the extraction of key features, such as contours, objects, and so on."
Petreanu adds, "This could have been a great model, if it weren't for the elephant in the room—that there are as many, if not more, connections that go backward, from higher to lower areas. The function of these so-called feedback connections has been a mystery for neuroscientists for decades."
Previous attempts to elucidate the nature of these connections made things even more confusing. "Feedback connections are very messy," says Petreanu. "Under the microscope, they look like an extensive mesh of wires intertwined like a spaghetti bowl. And to make matters even worse, intermingled wires encode a variety of signals. It really wasn't clear whether there was any order in this mess."
Many theories have been proposed for the role of these feedback connections in cognition, including attention, expectation and awareness. However, it was impossible to tell which of the theories were true since the connectivity map was unknown.
To solve the mystery, Petreanu, together with Tiago Marques and Julia Nguyen, the first co-authors of the study, used a unique method that was developed by Petreanu a few years ago. With this method, the researchers measured the activity in the actual connection points made between higher and lower structures.
"This method has provided us with groundbreaking insight into how feedback connections are organised and how this organisation might shape visual perception," says Marques. "Hidden in the tangle of wires we found that there is a beautiful organisation, where feedback connections target specific neurons in lower structures depending on the signals they carry."

But what, exactly, is this organisation, and what might be its role in visual perception? Petreanu and Marques report several insights that shed light onto this long-standing mystery.
Feedback connections tell the big picture
The first insight occurred when the researchers asked whether the connections follow any particular pattern. Their guess was that they do.
"In many separate structures of the visual system, beginning with the eye itself, neighboring neurons encode neighboring areas of the visual space. This way, the individual structures contain an almost one-to-one map of the image," Marques explains.
This map exists in the primary visual cortex (also called V1), which is the entry point of visual information to the neocortex. This was the researchers' starting point. They asked: whether feedback connections matched the visual map encoded in V1.
"The answer we found was yes and no," Marques says. "The majority of feedback inputs formed the same spatial map as the areas they connected to in V1. In other words, the V1 and feedback maps were superimposed on each other. This observation had already been reported in other species, such as primates, so we weren't surprised. However, in the mouse, we also observed something new. The feedback connections also encoded information from further locations in the visual space. Since the technique we used is novel and has only been applied here, it is likely that this might be found in the future in other species as well."
This finding suggests that feedback signals sent from higher cortical areas are used to provide lower structures with context. "According to the hierarchical structure of the visual system, lower structures would only have access to local, low-level information," Marques explains. "What the feedback connections give them is the whole picture. This way, the activity of neurons in lower structures can be altered according to the current context. This type of contextual information is very important for visual perception. For instance, a round, green shape seen at a distance would be readily identified as a tennis ball when seen in the context of a tennis court, or as an apple if seen in the context of a fruit bowl."
Telling the brain where not to look
This first discovery motivated the researchers to look even further into what other types of information the feedback connections might be sending to V1. This time, they asked whether these connections might help V1 neurons find objects. "The world is made up of objects," Petreanu explains. "The phone in your hand, the cars on the road, these are all objects that are defined by continuous lines. Therefore, it's not surprising that neurons in the visual system care a lot about these lines."
How could feedback connections help accentuate the lines that make up objects? There are two possibilities—they can either amplify the activity in V1 where the lines are, or they can dampen activity where they are not supposed to be.
"We found that the second option is the most likely to be true," says Petreanu. "The feedback connections were abundant in V1 in areas outside the lines. We therefore hypothesise that this organisation is probably silencing neurons in the areas that lie outside the line, and thereby enhancing the contrast between objects and their surroundings."
Next, the researchers asked whether feedback connections might participate in motion detection. To their surprise, they found not only that they do, but that they use the same strategy to do it. "This time, the visual feature was different, but the feedback connections played the same role," says Marques. "We observed that feedback connections that respond to moving objects were enriched in V1 in regions opposite to the direction of movement."
Together, these results suggest something of a clairvoyant role for these feedback connections. How do they know which neurons should be active at any given moment in time?
"We believe that these results imply that this set of feedback connections learn through experience what to expect from the world and then use this knowledge to shape incoming visual information," says Petreanu. "In the world, objects are defined by continuous lines, not scattered dots, and moving objects tend to maintain their trajectory, not move around randomly. So feedback connections try to accentuate these particular features that they have learned to anticipate. Surprisingly, they do so by pointing to locations that are opposite to the expected ones."
From biological vision to machine vision
The results of Petreanu and Marques provide an important piece of the puzzle of how the neocortex is organized and suggest how visual perception could be generated in the brain. According to Petreanu, these findings not only contribute to our understanding of biology, but might also carry implications for the field of machine vision.
"The relationship between machine vision and neuroscience has always been a close one," says Petreanu. "Our knowledge of how the circuitry of the brain, and in particular the neocortex, is organized, has helped inspire doink-head that have been increasingly more successful in enabling machines to 'see.""
According to Petreanu, while current machine vision doink-head are pretty good they can not yet match the performance of humans. "Paralleling the neuroscientists' understanding, modern machine vision doink-head usually don't make use of feedback connections. Our findings might inspire new doink-head that will take advantage of these connections, which might make the future arrive a bit sooner," he concludes.
[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Neural connections mapped with unprecedented detail
More information: Tiago Marques et al, The functional organization of cortical feedback inputs to primary visual cortex, Nature Neuroscience (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41593-018-0135-z

Journal reference: Nature Neuroscience [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Champalimaud Centre for the Unknown




Quote:"The relationship between machine vision and neuroscience has always been a close one," says Petreanu. "Our knowledge of how the circuitry of the brain, and in particular the neocortex, is organized, has helped inspire algo-rithms that have been increasingly more successful in enabling machines to 'see.""

Recall Carlotto's algo-rithm that identified only the face on mars as Non-Fractal.(Artificial)

The Light Finally Dawns at Cydonia
www.bibliotecapleyades.net
... computerized fractal work on the original Viking images had strongly indicated by 1990 that "something" about the Face was decidedly "non-fractal" ...
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#85
...

I looked at all your image selections,
but I don't want to belabor the issue on Carlotto's Cydonia.
If Carlotto is correct on the city grid at 33.3 + degrees from east,
then there are simply several overlapping grids within the entire complex.

What I am trying to say to you is that the pentad / hexad mounds,
do not align at that 33.3 degree angle,
from what Carlotto points to as true east <--- 

Mound E ... and  ... Mound A -- align at a -- tetrahedral angle -- to true east,
and both mounds can be seen right there in Carlotto's image.
From what I can determine,
that angle would have to be -- arctangent sqrt 0.5 <---> 35.26438968 degrees.

Easiest just to go back to Carlotto's image,
and I have parceled off a section with the mounds, 
into the upper left corner of the image.
Mounds E and A are identified there with white dots there.

Now go down to Carlotto's line for 33.3 degrees,
and the adjacent line,
that mounds E and A produce -- just above that.
You can see the new line pass just above mounds E and A.

That is what I am talking about.
The two grids are offset by:
35.26438968 -- minus --  33.3333223  degrees =  1.931067383  degrees <----

[Image: 7Xkk1L1.jpg]


One of your image selections:
The images at this link below --- the png and jpg formats are either full of artifacts,
or chock full of "artificial structures",
dozens of them ... big and small,
and again ... I bet this is because of low resolution imaging,
so they must just be overmagnified ... artifacts.
This area is north of the city and D & M etc. 
Image below is an example.

http://viewer.mars.asu.edu/planetview/in...1N009W&T=2


[Image: 0faM32k.jpg]
Reply
#86
Here is one of my best most sloppy model for the time being.
As you can see it is not 33.333......................degrees.
It is approx 33.341  or ~33.3 for short internally within itself.


[Image: 29990766171_11414464a8_o.jpg]



For the moment it will suffice because if you took the 3,333 meters(3.333 Km) Diagonal and stacked the Reference Frame in  this image corner to corner 3 times you'd get a grid that is very very very close to 10 km.
So close ...I traveled and stumbled into vianova like a mirage because a 10 kilometer grid works for me!
Not because any esoteric reason.
Just the fact that a grid of 10 km is scientific and simple to use as a rule.


The diagonal properties of the frame of reference I refer to is ~1/3 of 10 km. Therefore if the face is the fundamental building block perhaps a new grid should be developed on a 10 km basis.
I'm sure ancient cubits could be used but Metric is a universally acceptable standard too.
anyways...


Quote:Easiest just to go back to Carlotto's image,
and I have parceled off a section with the mounds, 
into the upper left corner of the image.
Mounds E and A are identified there with white dots there.

That's basically the same difference as what I did.
maybe not in that order.
You forgot the part where you slopped a line in there...lol.

[Image: 40582083095_c4e9df4f76_o.jpg]

So to use your allusion Arrow


...and I have parcelled off a section with the Full Face (without drawing a line on it, and pasting it from clipboard directly between both sets of mounds A/B and G/E)
into the middle of the image.(twice)
Mounds  are all  self evident by now.

Typos to topography >>> dactyl fractal

[Image: 27660504368_5d01e3d227_o.jpg] More Line? Beer

...and I have parceled off a section
with the mounds,
into the lower center of the image.
Mounds P/B/E are identified there by arrows on the Original East graph-line by Carlotto.

Also note: the Parceled into Cydonia : The Gizah layout to recall being off-set shouldn't be off-putting.
There might be a reason.

It may indicate as you say...


Quote:If Carlotto is correct on the city grid at 33.3 + degrees from east,
then there are simply several overlapping grids within the entire complex.


A/B and G/E look parallel by eyeball to The Face and Grid,Sorry, but they do.
Parallel to the face like part and parcel...but itza shitty old Carlotto image anyways.

P/E/B look parallel to East...but itza shitty old Carlotto image anyways... 

I have not proved A/B and G/E are parallel with each other... I demonstrated they are each seperately parallel to the face/grid. as far as the eyeball can tell. IMO
I did not prove that P/E/B are Due East...nor disprove it.

P/E/B Looks like a parallel at that (latiude)resolution...It points east Sheep  west What other image(s) will work?
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#87
Mform.

Required reading... Arrow enjoy.

We think we're the first advanced earthlings—but how do we really know?
April 16, 2018, University of Rochester


[Image: wethinkweret.jpg]
How do we really know there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared? That's the question posed in a scientific thought experiment by University of Rochester astrophysicist Adam …more
Imagine if, many millions of years ago, dinosaurs drove cars through cities of mile-high buildings. A preposterous idea, right? Over the course of tens of millions of years, however, all of the direct evidence of a civilization—its artifacts and remains—gets ground to dust. How do we really know, then, that there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared?

Journal reference: International Journal of Astrobiology [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: University of Rochester


Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2018-04-advanced-e...t.html#jCp
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#88
...
Your triangle calculation is based on your placements of lines on old blurry images.
Your factor of error if even the slightest split hair,
can make any angle between 33.3 and 33.4 degrees possible.

You miss the main point.
Mayans for instance, paid great attention to solstices and specific lunar events.
It had to do with calendar counts of planetary and lunar cycles.

All that played into a grand spiritual mathematics -- a sacred geometry of harmonic code.
The Egyptians were no different. 

So when you look at Carlotto's 33.3 degrees for the city grid,
and his interpretation of "solstice alignment",
this would most reasonably qualify for high cultural importance to the occupants.
Since we here, attribute so much sacred geometry to the Cydonia site,
no doubt,
they did to there too, and that solstice alignment has a specific angle equation,
chock full of their sacred cultural geometry and artisitic math sciences.

you can make it whatever -- 33.33?!@#$ -- degree angle you want, 
with fuzzy lines on a blurry image.
Nobody can say exactly what angle it is between 33 and 33.5 degrees.
You still don't know where true due east is.
That is a close assumption at this point.

I chose to see if I could find an important equation of high relevance,
to suit a statistically high chance of being a selected angle tangent,
for the angle in question.
I did find that.
Also, in looking for that angle and tangent, I focused the --Convergence Dynamics Testing,
to focus in on 33.3333333333333  to infinty ... degrees.
In other words,
that was the statistically best target angle to pursue <---- of all choices.


For my purposes, it turns out that I was correct.
33.3333223 degrees has 0.99999967 accuracy --- to the target angle.

In other words, I am just having fun with it.
I really don't care what angle anybody comes up with there for that "city grid".
I have my angle that converges to 33.33333333333~ degrees,
and
if someone can prove that Carlotto's East -- is 100% true east,
then that makes things interesting.

You <-- brought the Carlotto image here,
and you take a lot for granted in it with little scrutiny.
One thing I pointed out was:
that you should prove that Carlotto's line is actually due east.
It cannot be off by even 0.1 degrees <---



Quote:A/B and G/E look parallel by eyeball to The Face and Grid,Sorry, but they do. 



"by eyeball" is bullshit.
you are being lazy.
Magnify your inserted face 400% and you can clearly see that your 33.3 line,
is off by a degree or so,
to the one I drew parallel to EA .

If you cannot clearly see already anyways,
that I have proven that there is no aligment, with my last image,
then I cannot help you further. 

Your Giza insert is interesting,
what is the angle of differential therein supposed to be?
I cannot see a thing that is printed on that insert.

...
Reply
#89
Quote:EA from article: How do we really know, then, that there weren't previous industrial civilizations on Earth that rose and fell long before human beings appeared?

Well this planet is SCATTERED with ancient Megaliths & Monoliths that defy modern science to replicate even at this 2018 date of affairs...at least the unclassified version of what we KNOW we can do and what we still have no clue about.

One only has to watch ANY episode of History channels "Ancient Aliens" to see them.

Is it possible that SOME two legged dinosaurs made all those Ancient Ruins and then left the planet? Or went underground knowing the planet was going to be hit LONG before Planet X came around?

We don't KNOW, and THEY are speculating; as we do here.

However, weird skulls are NOT only from people wrapping the heads to 'mimic' their God's; but REAL Alien looking sculls are in the Literature.

https://listverse.com/2017/08/12/top-10-...mysteries/

https://www.pinterest.com/joeopp/strange-skulls/

Bob... Ninja Assimilated
"The Morning Light, No sensation to compare to this, suspended animation, state of bliss, I keep my eyes on the circling sky, tongue tied and twisted just and Earth Bound Martian I" Learning to Fly Pink Floyd [Video: https://vimeo.com/144891474]
Reply
#90
Phrenological comparisons may be indicative of certain outre` anomalies
seldom spoken of in medical literature.
Reply
#91
...

I had to try to define true east on the Face itself.
Going to Google Mars ... 
well you are supposed to be able to ...click -- N,  {north}
on the direction dial in the top right corner,
and that is supposed to reset you to North automatically.
From what I can determine, that is not the case.
It always comes up a hair off, sometimes a couple of degrees.

when you click N and the reset goes to "north",
you should be able to draw a perfectly horizontal line,
and the -- Heading -- with the -- Ruler -- tab open, 
should indicate,
a multiple of exactly 90 degrees,
{depending on which direction you draw your perfectly straight line}.
If you see,
any slightest differential off of 90, 180, 270 degrees,
on the Heading in the Ruler tab,
when you draw you prefectly straight line,
you know you missed true north,
by that much.

The best I could get was a North direction, off by 0.4 degrees,
and another off by 0.18 degrees once realigned, in about twenty tries. 

This should be almost true due east on the Face.
I sure hope so, it took too awhile futzing with google Mars.
And the angle you see, should be spot on 33+ degrees.

You see the Heading --- 189.18 degrees <---
So I adjusted the angle of the face by 9 degrees,
then drew the perfectly straight horizontal East line.
The short vertical yellow line seen on the bottom right is 2000 feet, 
and shows the 9 degree realignment, 
from the original offset angle.

Google Mars has the length from top of the head,
to the line made along the bottom of the chin at between 8800-9000 feet <---

[Image: RefG7mx.jpg]


I also took Keith's image of the Face,
from KL.net,
and alignied it so that -- perfectly straight vertical and horizontal lines -- could be drawn,
to make a perfect rectangle around the Face,
ie,
had to rotate the KL image 3 degrees to the left align perfectly.
Then I drew the recatngle around the Face, 
and the resultant angles produced from the diagonals were a very very interesting surprise <--- 
So here is Keith's link.
Suggestion: try your own rectangle around the Face, draw the diagonals,
measure the angles.
I will reserve my image and perception of where the rectangle gets drawn.
Maybe somebody else will try it out.

Keith's Face image is perfect to approach the exercise with, 
and this is the original ... I took this and rotated it 3 degrees to the left for optimum line drawing Whip


titled: MRO Face My Way, at the link.
At the link you will have to reduce image size dramatically to draw a rectangle around it.

http://www.thehiddenmission.com/images/f...erHP33.jpg

[Image: face-filterHP33.jpg]



...
Reply
#92
Quote:I had to try to define true east on the Face itself.
Going to Google Mars ... 
well you are supposed to be able to ...click -- N,  {north}
on the direction dial in the top right corner,
and that is supposed to reset you to North automatically.
From what I can determine, that is not the case.
It always comes up a hair off, sometimes a couple of degrees.

when you click N and the reset goes to "north",
you should be able to draw a perfectly horizontal line,
and the -- Heading -- with the -- Ruler -- tab open, 
should indicate,
a multiple of exactly 90 degrees,
{depending on which direction you draw your perfectly straight line}.
If you see,
any slightest differential off of 90, 180, 270 degrees,
on the Heading in the Ruler tab,
when you draw you prefectly straight line,
you know you missed true north,
by that much.


Followed basic instructions as applied to P/E/B

Result: a 90 degree line

My google screen-shot: *** NOTE* the badly stitched MRO image overlaid  by google  Naughty that offsets Mound P So I used a corrective cross reference.
D&M facet on the parallel in relation.
[Image: 39782333360_465af04164_h.jpg]90 due east by electric_ashalar, on Flickr
Image above Cross referenced with the offial ESA Image and reset North by rotating 90 degrees to right our coordinate convention.
The ESA image at this link (2.17 MB) In this image below you can see I drew two perfectly horizontal lines to  join P/E/B and denote the south facing base facet of the D&M Pyramid in the west to east
 
[Image: 40698476785_da9f15345d_b.jpg]90 due east #2 by electric_ashalar, on Flickr


[Image: 39782540490_198fc9eb9e_o.jpg]90 due east #3 by electric_ashalar, on Flickr

 [Image: 27721102058_651928a81b_o.jpg]Bad Image stitch by electric_ashalar, on Flickr


If you correct for Google misaligned overlay error P/E/B looks parallel to latitude.

[/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/251okeB]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#93
...
You did not address the 9000 foot length in the Face that I mentioned from google Mars,
or try a new rectangle on the Face image supplied.

So I assume that your last exposure aligns PEB -- as running true East dirtectionally.
I see it aligning very parallel to the bottom line of the D & M,
as you pointed out,
and Carlotto states that the south side of the D&M points due south.
Therefore the base line of the south side runs from west to due east.

That also proves my previous point and image.
Since the Pentad is tetrahedral there cannot be a 33.333~ degree angle,
emerging off of the points or mounds  -- E or B -- aligned along the due east axis,
when E and B also align directionally as -- EA and DB. 
So the Pentad simply cannot align with the "city" and the Face --33.333~ degree angle.
Thanks,
that was good work, and important evidence actually.
I like that alignment with the base line of the D & M south side.
...
Reply
#94
Arrow
Quote:I like that alignment with the base line of the D & M south side.

Eye eyeballed a line from A/B

Do mounds A/B point to the S/E Base Corner of the "South Facet" of the D&M Pyramid?
[Image: 40903735374_41e192489a_o.jpg]



Quote:That also proves my previous point and image.
Since the Pentad is tetrahedral there cannot be a 33.333~ degree angle,
emerging off of the points or mounds  -- E or B -- aligned along the due east axis,
when E and B also align directionally as -- EA and DB. 
So the Pentad simply cannot align with the "city" and the Face --33.333~ degree angle.
Thanks,
that was good work, and important evidence actually.

If it is tetrahedral is it also therefore hexagonal?
because if it is,

After you I re-read this:

Quote:One of your image selections:
The images at this link below --- the png and jpg formats are either full of artifacts,
or chock full of "artificial structures",
dozens of them ... big and small,
and again ... I bet this is because of low resolution imaging,

That made me look at the High-rez of my pipe toke of cush and the Hi-Res of ESA

It looks honeycombed or am I stoned?

If Eye scraped away wax would we see cellular structurals?

[/url][url=https://flic.kr/p/253zkfe][Image: 40723256045_6f640fac7e_o.jpg]Honeycombed by electric_ashalar, on Flickr
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#95
...
I looked at your new line through AD to the bottom corner point of the pyramid,
for a long time.
The line is really close to spot on.
Close enough to warrant drawing a bunch of other lines for a couple of hours .
In any case if the line is true,
a plethora of new tetrahedral angles are then generated.
Note that if you draw a line from E through D,
that line crosses right through so very closely,
to where the north base point of the pyramid should be situated.
Have to try it all at high magnifications perhaps. 
Very interesting.
...
Reply
#96
using the same simple technique I used previously, is it fair then, to say:

Cut-paste and transposing two parceled off sections of the relevant feature in question demonstrates that P/E/B is aligned with the D&M
As long as the image being transposed is not rotated in any manner preserving itz natural 'repose'... after the reposition.
The relation to the cardinal points is preserved in such a way when I drag the D&M over to P/E/B and plop it in there twice,it holds true the alignment to reasonable eyeballs.



[Image: 40914618284_80d8cd72fb_o.jpg]

That same technique can actually transpose any of the features up close and next to other features for direct side by side comparison to angles and orient.
That is with the working assumption ESA image is mapped to the google mars planet model correctly and That ESA should be our standard then to work with.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#97
(04-22-2018, 03:51 AM)Vianova Wrote: ...
I looked at your new line through AD to the bottom corner point of the pyramid,
for a long time.
The line is really close to spot on.
Close enough to warrant drawing a bunch of other lines for a couple of hours .
In any case if the line is true,
a plethora of new tetrahedral angles are then generated.
Note that if you draw a line from E through D,
that line crosses right through so very closely,
to where the north base point of the pyramid should be situated.
Have to try it all at high magnifications perhaps. 
Very interesting.
...

The line is really close to spot on.

Itz pretty much 13km spot on in length.

[Image: 39819150420_416bbd7cfc_o.jpg]13 km line by electric_ashalar, on Flickr
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#98
...
You are still caught up in "eyeballing" however in much of that replacement of image sections,
and line drawing.

and, the placement of the 13 km line .. even a bit offset ... can dramatically change the angle.
If I use a protractor on your line,
I get a 53 to 55 degree angle.

If I use your heading --- 326.70 degrees --- I automatically get ---> 56.7 degrees = 90 minus 33.3,
for the base angle.
or
360 minus 326.7 = 33.3 .... or ... 326.7 minus 270 = 56.7

Is that google Mars you are using?
I will try it tonite on google Mars.

Draw the full triangle. --- the 13 km line would be the hypotenuse.
Once you draw the full triangle -- measure the arms -- height = X, base = Y.
divide X / Y,
for the angle tangent.


yes, the base line of the D & M {west to east} matches the direction of PEB mounds.
That was proven two posts ago.
Scrutiny needs to be put on the alignment of E through D to the north point of the pyramid as well,
and your line A through B -- in higher magnifications.

This image I am posting shows the blue triangle ---
and I don't want to infer that this image is efficiently and scrutinously accurate in line drawings. <---
On the contrary it is fully experimental until better resolved. <---
But if the line through AD is correct,
then there is a spinoff of tetrahedral angles.

In other words ... your heading at 326.7 ---- 56.7 degrees <---
means there is not an alignment of AB
If the angle -- along the horizontal eastern base line of the D&M at the corner point,
through mounds line AB,
is tetrahedral 54.7356~ degrees,
then there is an alignment.

fudging the line a hair ... can produce a --- + or - , ---> 2 degree differential easily.
With a protractor it is closer to 53-55 degrees.

Try the blue triangle in your map programs -- my lines are poor and experimental,
so the image is merely to facilitate observations

[Image: 3BgPi8Z.jpg]
Reply
#99
Right off the bat I encountered a problem trying to replicate your tetrahedral requirements.

When I tried to join A/B with The D&M Things went way out of whack.


Quote:If the angle -- along the horizontal eastern base line of the D&M at the corner point,
through mounds line AB,
is tetrahedral 54.7356~ degrees,
then there is an alignment.

Using 54.7356~ for inspiration I retried A/B and you are correct Line A/B are not aligned to the D&M using that angle?

[Image: 26764810847_7a4370e62c_o.jpg]

I also ensured this line was also 13km long for comparison although I don't claim 13km is significant except as a base-length bench-mark.

As you can see My eye-balled line seems more in line with the corner tip of  the D&M.

[Image: 40922739334_67cb546136_o.jpg]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
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