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from above link>

(The following discussion is based on David Bohm's theory of the 'Implicate Order', developed in the 1980s in order to explain the strange behavior of sub-atomic particles. The central underlying theme of Bohm's theory is that there is a unifying reality which underlies physical reality called the 'implicate order'. This 'order' unifies the totality of existence so that nothing is separate from anything else).

Today, we can venture into a discussion of quantum physics and its relationship to consciousness because much has been written about this in recent decades, and also because analogies taken from the physical world can often help us understand the spiritual world. This is because the principle "as above, so below" is universally true, whether we perceive it to be so or not.

Since the 1920s, the field of quantum physics has catapulted us forward in our understanding of the physical world. It has taken some physicists to the edge of this world, to the place where the physical interfaces with the spiritual. One area of quantum physics in which this is true involves the creation and destruction of sub-atomic particles. It is because of the inherent mystery at this level, of things coming into and going out of existence, that we can explore the fertile ground of present knowledge and ask broader questions regarding being and non-being - spiritual questions arising out of this mystery.

Within quantum physics, it is understood that in a vacuum - a space that has, as much as possible, been emptied of both matter and energy - that some background energy still remains. Out of this background energy, particles continually emerge and disappear.

1 Some of these particles have a 'virtual' reality - a reality that is similar to that of 'real' particles, but different from them in the length of time that they exist.

'Virtual' particles appear out of the 'nothingness' of the vacuum and disappear back into it again after such a very short time in existence, that one could almost say that they did not exist at all. 'Virtual' particles can also become 'real' particles, becoming measurable and lasting longer, depending on how much energy is added to the vacuum.

2 Also, both virtual and real particles can change into other particles before they disappear from existence.

The fluidity of this landscape of sub-atomic particles is like the foam frothing on a turbulent sea. However, the seas of the earth are something we know and have ideas about. We observe their tides, their wave-patterns, and foam. What we don't know is where sub-atomic particles - the constituents of the 'quantum foam' - go when they are not 'real' or even 'virtual', or what the generating force is for this turbulence.

This is a serious question. Some physicists define the vacuum state as a state of nothingness. However, it has also been defined as a state of being which appears on the physical level to contain nothing, but which plays an active role in determining which particles emerge from it and become 'explicate' or real. The 'implicate order' can be seen as both a physical and metaphysical construction - the name for a vast Intelligence which contains all things within itself and which 'en-folds' or 'un-folds' these things so that they emerge into the reality we experience as real.

The 'implicate order', should it exist, would appear to have the capability of creating separate particles which appear to us as real (un-foldment), and also of reabsorbing these particles (en-foldment) so that they disappear into it and become part of the background again. Whether we are talking about muons, electrons, pions, or positrons, there are a number of questions that arise out of this focus:

Why do certain particles arise then disappear? Why do they change into other particles? Is there a guiding Intelligence that is continually creating physical matter out of background nothingness? Is the Implicate Order something close to what we think of as God?

The view that nothingness is filled with something, though not something we can see or measure, takes us from the realm of the physical into the realm of the spiritual. From a spiritual perspective, we may be seeing our own future - the future of consciousness. For there is an analogy that can be made between the way sub-atomic particles operate - the way they come into and go out of existence - and the way individual consciousness has the potential for operating as it evolves. For example, we can hold the possibility that individual consciousness, like sub-atomic particles, has the capacity to 'un-fold' and 'en-fold' as particles do - hovering between being and non-being, and that this dual awareness is the result of an evolving awareness, a consciousness infused by Divine 'breath'.

Divine 'breath' is the infused life of God as it affects all beings. It is not restricted to any particular belief system, tradition, or religion. Sacred 'breathing', which is the experience of Divine 'breath', does not just involve taking in air, but rather taking in the higher frequencies of Light. Such breathing contains within itself both the capacity to individualize consciousness, and also to return it to the state of non-duality.

The infusion of Divine breath involves a process analogous to inhaling and exhaling on the physical plane but with this qualification - that the pulsations of Light which polarize and unite consciousness between time and eternity, between form and formlessness, do not necessarily alternate in time in the way that inhaling and exhaling do. Rather, they may be considered to be ponts of reference on a continuum, both ends of which can remain in consciousness. Also, in contrast to the physical act of breathing which is within the awareness of every creature, the awareness of Divine breath is not automatic within human consciousness at the present time. Rather, it corresponds to a consciousness that has developed a capacity to attune to the higher frequencies of Light.

For such a consciousness, the inhalation pulse of 'sacred breathing' brings consciousness into a state of self-discernment - one in which the individualized self becomes a unique expression of the Infinite. The exhalation pulse, by contrast, brings consciousness into oneness with the Universal - with that which is All. In the latter state, individualized identity disappears, and, like a drop of water in the ocean, becomes part of the All.

Divine breath is the origin of life in the Universe. It is the gift of the Mother/Creatrix/God who infuses life with Light and brings consciousness into awareness of being both a self and also merged within a greater Unity.

The role of Divine intention is that consciousness on all levels, the human as well as the sub-atomic, will come to realize itself as unified so that matter and consciousness will no longer be separate.

Though such movement is only in its beginning stages at this time, the purification of the earth and of individual consciousness will accelerate this process, bringing the fruits of sacred breathing to each soul who seeks the light, as naturally and inevitably as physical breathing takes place today. In this way the un-folding and en-folding aspects of reality will ultimately be realized.

The means to the deepening experience of Divine breath are purification and purity which allow the greater incorporation of light within the cellular structure of the body. These awaken the capacity to see and feel the Divine behind individual physical life, as well as the capacity to feel One with All. As a model for this dual experience, quantum physics illustrates in the behavior of the tiniest sub-atomic particles, life's purpose and the purpose of consciousness, down to the smallest dimensions of physical reality.

myspace message from 1îghtw¤rker§
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
-------Original Message-------



Whether Democrat or Republican, you should get a kick out of this !!



A little boy goes to his dad and asks,
'What is Politics?'

Dad says, 'Well, son, let me try to explain it this way:

I am the head of the family, so call me The President.

Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the

Government.

We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you

the People.


The nanny, we will consider her the

Working Class.

And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.

Now think about that and see if it makes sense.'

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.

He finds that the baby has severely

soiled his diaper.

So the little boy goes to his parents' room and finds his mother asleep.
Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny.
He gives up and goes back to bed.


The next morning, the little boy says to his father, 'Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now.'

The father says, 'Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.'

The little boy replies,

'The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep.
The People are being ignored and the
Future is in deep shit.'

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38JpAMG65Dg
The Band - The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIpfhEwl ... re=related
The Band - Up On Cripple Creek (Live-1970)


<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
http://www.grammasforganja.org/

[Image: logogg.jpg]

Declaration of Principles

DECLARATION OF PRINCIPLES

1. We are convinced that de facto prohibition of the Cannabis sativa L. plant species is fundamentally wrong,

a) Because it conflicts with the basic American principles of local home rule and destroys the balance, established by the framers of our government, between powers delegated to the Federal authority and those reserved to the sovereign states or to the people themselves,
b) And because its attempt to impose total abstinence by national governmental fiat ignores the truth that no law will be respected or can be enforced unless supported by the moral sense and the common consciousness of the communities affected by it.

2. We are convinced that de facto prohibition, wrong in principle, has been equally disastrous in consequences in the hypocrisy, the corruption, the tragic loss of life and the appalling increase of crime which have attended the abortive attempt to enforce it; in the checking of the steady growth of temperance which had preceded it; in the shocking effect it has had upon the youth of the nation; in the impairment of constitutional guarantees of individual rights; in the weakening of the sense of solidarity between the citizen and the government which is the only sure basis of a country’s strength.

The Gramma’s FOR Ganja Organization records these convictions and declares:

* That this de facto prohibition of the Cannabis sativa L. species of plants has demonstrated its adoption to be a grievous mistake, persistence in which will constitute a continuing threat to our country’s well being.
* That in the removal from the Federal laws of provisions, which should never have been put into it, lies the only reasonable hope of relief from conditions, which have become intolerable.
* That in our judgment the return to each state of its former power to allow the growth, sale and transportation of the Cannabis sativa L. species, within its own limits should be accompanied by adequate state regulatory enactment’s and responsive to the sentiments of the people and therefore capable of enforcement.
* That such enactment’s would drive the crime breeding trafficking of the present day to the same extinction that has already met other prohibitive legislation.
* That the Federal government, exercising its power to regulate interstate and foreign commerce should protect each state in the enforcement of its state laws according to its true function.
* That the people of the United States who have never had the opportunity to pass judgment upon this question should be given such an opportunity and that therefore, that this may be accomplished in an orderly way and in accord with legal procedure, we urge the Congress to submit to conventions of the people in the several states rather than to the legislatures thereof, a resolution for the repeal of this de facto prohibition.

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
[quote author="Wook"]-------Original Message-------



Whether Democrat or Republican, you should get a kick out of this !!



A little boy goes to his dad and asks,
'What is Politics?'

Dad says, 'Well, son, let me try to explain it this way:

I am the head of the family, so call me The President.

Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the

Government.

We are here to take care of your needs, so we will call you

the People.


The nanny, we will consider her the

Working Class.

And your baby brother, we will call him the Future.

Now think about that and see if it makes sense.'

So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said.

Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him.

He finds that the baby has severely

soiled his diaper.

So the little boy goes to his parents' room and finds his mother asleep.
Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny.
He gives up and goes back to bed.


The next morning, the little boy says to his father, 'Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now.'

The father says, 'Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about.'

The little boy replies,

'The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep.
The People are being ignored and the
Future is in deep shit.'

Rofl Rofl Rofl
On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
MOMMY !!!
THERE'S BLOOD ON MY PILLOW !!!

[Image: 11-2-04%20mom%20rob.jpg]
Reply
Quote:So the cafes have no problems. But gov wants to shut them done anyway. Leave it to the buerocrats to fuck up a good thing.

The Stalinozionist bumbwipes can eat shi'ite and die! They are the real terrorists and murderers, not those using
weed. Alcohol, amphetamines, pharmadrugs, PCP, heroin, crank and crack cause really nasty reactions in people!

I hope the Amerqaeda terrorists and rogue cops got sick from E. Coli in their turkeys! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/poop.gif" alt="Poop" title="poop" />
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mJDqLat ... re=related
"Time" - The Alan Parsons Project - Space Slideshow.

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKRR9RMm ... re=related
Glacier Surfing Alaska

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlPqL7IU ... re=related
Struck in tsunami
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSmNuHQz ... re=related

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PybtBKSA ... re=related
<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smoke.gif" alt="Smoke" title="smoke" />
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
Two long boring medical proof of the good of marjuana from USLC pulminary cardiologist each about 20 min long

Marijuana, Compassion and Common Sense...gotta love the title Applause

Part 1


[video:1ofyekj0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJmQ16cGBHU[/video:1ofyekj0]


Part 2


[video:1ofyekj0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6pBw0bgmgA[/video:1ofyekj0]


Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
Reply
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNaKWXqX ... re=related
Dire Straits • Money for nothing (1984)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjDD30Fj ... re=related
Dire Straits "Skateaway" (1980)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SEULZIH ... re=related
Dire Straits - Sultans of Swing
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
Happy Birthday!

http://org2.democracyinaction.org/o/566 ... gn_KEY=797

Quote:December, 2008 marks the 75th anniversary of the end of alcohol prohibition. You can help teach a lesson from history by asking your representatives to repeal today’s failed prohibition of drugs.

When America’s leaders repealed alcohol prohibition,it wasn't because they suddenly decided that liquor was safe and that everyone should drink. Rather, it was because they were tired of gangsters raking in rich illegal profits and terrorizing neighborhoods. And we simply could not afford to keep enforcing the failed prohibition during the Great Depression, our nation's worst economic crisis.

Today, America is in the grip of a new economic crisis, but we keep paying for an even more devastating prohibition, the "war on drugs."

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
search/videos/Obama medical marijuana......
[the video is messed up for a few seconds at first]
[video:a9li8obd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTWZ7W5w48s[/video:a9li8obd]
Reply
Quote:search/videos/Obama medical marijuana......
[the video is messed up for a few seconds at first]
[video:3ojuzm8o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTWZ7W5w48s[/video:3ojuzm8o]

Quote:I don't know what is marijuana. Perhaps I will try it when it will no longer be criminal. I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand
former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien while still in office.
He never made it legal either.

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
Hey Barack I sent you an EMAIL on this already...where's the change?


[video:h45snhaw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw[/video:h45snhaw]


THIS CURES CANCER !!!

Want smaller health care costs??? Naughty

STUPID IF YOU DON'T LIVE UP TO AND RECOGNIZE THE BRUTAL TRUTH !!! Naughty

DO IT BEFORE WE BELIEVE IT !!!

Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
Reply
Quote:Hey Barack I sent you an EMAIL on this already...where's the change?


[video:cln9hphp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjhT9282-Tw[/video:cln9hphp]


THIS CURES CANCER !!!

Want smaller health care costs??? Naughty

STUPID IF YOU DON'T LIVE UP TO AND RECOGNIZE THE BRUTAL TRUTH !!! Naughty

DO IT BEFORE WE BELIEVE IT !!!

Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />

He probably thinks the drug companies will assassinate him and I bet they would.
Quote:No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
...Because even if there were no artifacts anywhere, not studying things of interest is an extreme disservice to science. -Tarius
Reply
Quote:
Quote:I don't know what is marijuana. Perhaps I will try it when it will no longer be criminal. I will have my money for my fine and a joint in the other hand
former Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien while still in office.
He never made it legal either.

Peace

I watched that Obama video a few times and he DID display some tell-tale PRO facial expressions...when he mentioned people growing it and setting up Ma & Pa stores.

He can...
1) do nothing except for making it a lot easier to get for medicine.
2) approach legalization only after reaping some big successes (as per what he said about using "political capital").
3) make legalization a cornerstone of his economic plans.

Of course, #3 makes the most logical sense.
Reply
Quote:3) make legalization a cornerstone of his economic plans.

Of course, #3 makes the most logical sense.

Pardon me while I rant.
From who's perspective? Elected officials don't look at the world from the average person's point of view. The problem with this approach is the gov't makes more money in campaign contributions and 'other' fringe benefits from those making money off the War on Certain Drugs™ than from those opposed to it. LEO unions, pharmacriminals, the alcohol industry, the MIC companies that make the intimidating flack jackets and tasers that LEOs love so much, the chemical companies that make all those plastics and paints, judges, lawyers, prison building companies, etc., etc. all have a vested interest in making sure this war continues forever. It's not in any elected officials interests to go against those people. And besides, name one politician (besides Ron Paul) that doesn't like spending your money. They just don't care what you or I think or how much of our money they spend. All the states that have medical cannabis laws were achieved via voter initiatives (except one but I can't remember which). Many of those states had their politicians actively working against those initiatives even though they consistently win with 60-65% backing.
The possession laws in Canada have been struck down numerous times since the early nineties only to be reimplemented via backdoor deals with the judges over and over again. In the most current case R. vs. Long (see details at http://thepotlawhasfallen.ca/ ) the judge has been sitting on her decision since the 18th of Nov. Why? The only logical conclusion would be that the the gov. is working on some way to nullify her decision or get some sort of reprieve. All the while, the general population is in support of at least decrim. if not out right legalization. Every single gov't paid for Royal Commission, Senate Commission or report has stated at least decrim. And surprise, surprise, the gov't has ignored every last one of them. Why? $$$ and power. They will not give it up. I full expect that I will spend my entire life as a criminal in their eyes for my cannabis use short of an all out revolution against the gov't.
/end rant.

Anywho, let's watch how the Brit and Dutch gov'ts ignore the following.

http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/content/view/772/27/

Dutch Cannabis Tribunal Finds That Ban Does More Harm Than Good
Estimates of the number of cannabis users in the UK range from 3 to 7 million - in Europe over 70 million - and ALL those people are regarded as criminals. It cannot be normal to have that number of "criminals" on our streets! Something must be wrong. A Dutch Tribunal on cannabis conducted in The Hague, The Netherlands, on
December 1st and 2nd has concluded that a ban on cannabis does indeed
have more disadvantages than advantages.

Representatives of the Christian Democrat Party (CDA) failed to convince
an independent judge of the opposite.

On behalf of the organisers, Joep Oomen, spokesperson for ENCOD (THE
EUROPEAN COALITION FOR JUST AND EFFECTIVE DRUG POLICIES), launched a call to the Members of the Dutch Parliament to request the Dutch
government to abolish this ban as soon as possible.

Members of the UK group The Legalise Cannabis Alliance (LCA) echoed this
call to the British Government to heed the advice of the tribunal as well as it's own expert Committee, the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD)

Earlier this year the ACMD concluded it's own investigation into the
current classification of cannabis as a class C drug and recommended no
change. However, the Labour Government has rejected the advice of the
experts and announced the upgrading to class B.

Alun Buffry, a spokesperson for the LCA said: "Our Government has chosen
to act against the advice of its own experts after asking them for it. Evidence in fact shows not only that the risks from using cannabis are much lower than other class B drugs, but there has been a decrease in use since downgrading to class C. It does not make sense to ignore fact even in an attempt to send out signals to people not to use some drugs when people already know that the experts say differently. All it does is make the Government look foolish and dishonest.

"The prohibition of cannabis, designed to protect people from harm, has had the reverse effect - society is riddled with uncontrollable suppliers of dubious quality and unknown strength: cannabis - although often contaminated - is available to almost any person, teenagers included, in almost every town and city, within minutes - and the minimum age is a ten pound note - that is, often there is no concern for age of customers buying on the streets

"Whilst in the press we read tales of the unfortunate few who seem to have suffered through illegal cannabis use, hundreds of thousands of victimless users including those who find medical benefit face prosecution each year.

"Estimates of the number of cannabis users in the UK range from 3 to 7 million - in Europe over 70 million - and ALL those people are regarded as criminals. It cannot be normal to have that number of "criminals" on our streets! Something must be wrong.

"It is time for the Government to admit that prohibition of cannabis has been a dreadful failure and to look at alternatives - such as a controlled system of supply for adults, allowing small scale cultivation at home for own use and non-profit collective growing clubs.

"It is time for the Government to heed the expert advice and take the control of supply out of the hands of criminal dealers and start protecting users instead of criminalising them.

Notes for Editors

Alun Buffry
http://www.lca-uk.org/

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
Quote:"It is time for the Government to heed the expert advice and take the control of supply out of the hands of criminal dealers and start protecting users instead of criminalising them.


<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/applause.gif" alt="Applause" title="applause" />


They hypocricy amongst alcohol users just pisses me off. I am currently living in a "village" with mostly college students, and some older local Hawaiians. The Hawaiians, who grow their indigenous weed outside (which is awesome btw, but too peppery and KILLS your lungs!) are pretty calm folks, and I never hear a peep out of them.

The drinkers, however, are so sad to watch. The young boys next door are so literally brain damaged, that they can't even stand straight. It appears that they drink 24/7. One of them came by here after he got off work with a fifth of vodka in one hand and a small Sprite in the other. I asked him if he wanted a glass, and he said he would just mix in his mouth. I would estimate that he downed that entire bottle of vodka in about 1-1.5 hours, and who knows what he consumed after he went back home. I would guess that he is 25 years old and has already done permanent damage to his nervous system, from the way he wobbles and shakes.

But I see the old-timer Hawaiians, who smoke something around 40 joints of that high-grade weed per day, and they are all fighters or UFC Trainers, unbelievably physically fit, and in much better shape than I am at much less their age.

There just doesn't even seem to be a comparison to the damage that alcohol does to people's lives, so when are we going to get out from under all this stupid propaganda?
Reply
Quote:There just doesn't even seem to be a comparison to the damage that alcohol does to people's lives, so when are we going to get out from under all this stupid propaganda?

Not in our lifetimes. Like I said in my rant, it's about $$$ and power. The cannabis community is nothing more than the replacement for the witches of centuries gone by.

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
Reply
Quote:[quote author="Kalter Rauch"]3) make legalization a cornerstone of his economic plans.

Of course, #3 makes the most logical sense.

Pardon me while I rant.
From who's perspective? Elected officials don't look at the world from the average person's point of view. The problem with this approach is the gov't makes more money in campaign contributions and 'other' fringe benefits from those making money off the War on Certain Drugs™ than from those opposed to it. LEO unions, pharmacriminals, the alcohol industry, the MIC companies that make the intimidating flack jackets and tasers that LEOs love so much, the chemical companies that make all those plastics and paints, judges, lawyers, prison building companies, etc., etc. all have a vested interest in making sure this war continues forever. It's not in any elected officials interests to go against those people. And besides, name one politician (besides Ron Paul) that doesn't like spending your money. They just don't care what you or I think or how much of our money they spend. All the states that have medical cannabis laws were achieved via voter initiatives (except one but I can't remember which). Many of those states had their politicians actively working against those initiatives even though they consistently win with 60-65% backing.
The possession laws in Canada have been struck down numerous times since the early nineties only to be reimplemented via backdoor deals with the judges over and over again. In the most current case R. vs. Long (see details at http://thepotlawhasfallen.ca/ ) the judge has been sitting on her decision since the 18th of Nov. Why? The only logical conclusion would be that the the gov. is working on some way to nullify her decision or get some sort of reprieve. All the while, the general population is in support of at least decrim. if not out right legalization. Every single gov't paid for Royal Commission, Senate Commission or report has stated at least decrim. And surprise, surprise, the gov't has ignored every last one of them. Why? $$$ and power. They will not give it up. I full expect that I will spend my entire life as a criminal in their eyes for my cannabis use short of an all out revolution against the gov't.
/end rant.

Anywho, let's watch how the Brit and Dutch gov'ts ignore the following.

http://pr.cannazine.co.uk/content/view/772/27/

Dutch Cannabis Tribunal Finds That Ban Does More Harm Than Good
Estimates of the number of cannabis users in the UK range from 3 to 7 million - in Europe over 70 million - and ALL those people are regarded as criminals. It cannot be normal to have that number of "criminals" on our streets! Something must be wrong. A Dutch Tribunal on cannabis conducted in The Hague, The Netherlands, on
December 1st and 2nd has concluded that a ban on cannabis does indeed
have more disadvantages than advantages.

Representatives of the Christian Democrat Party (CDA) failed to convince
an independent judge of the opposite.

On behalf of the organisers, Joep Oomen, spokesperson for ENCOD (THE
EUROPEAN COALITION FOR JUST AND EFFECTIVE DRUG POLICIES), launched a call to the Members of the Dutch Parliament to request the Dutch
government to abolish this ban as soon as possible.

Members of the UK group The Legalise Cannabis Alliance (LCA) echoed this
call to the British Government to heed the advice of the tribunal as well as it's own expert Committee, the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs (ACMD)

Earlier this year the ACMD concluded it's own investigation into the
current classification of cannabis as a class C drug and recommended no
change. However, the Labour Government has rejected the advice of the
experts and announced the upgrading to class B.

Alun Buffry, a spokesperson for the LCA said: "Our Government has chosen
to act against the advice of its own experts after asking them for it. Evidence in fact shows not only that the risks from using cannabis are much lower than other class B drugs, but there has been a decrease in use since downgrading to class C. It does not make sense to ignore fact even in an attempt to send out signals to people not to use some drugs when people already know that the experts say differently. All it does is make the Government look foolish and dishonest.

"The prohibition of cannabis, designed to protect people from harm, has had the reverse effect - society is riddled with uncontrollable suppliers of dubious quality and unknown strength: cannabis - although often contaminated - is available to almost any person, teenagers included, in almost every town and city, within minutes - and the minimum age is a ten pound note - that is, often there is no concern for age of customers buying on the streets

"Whilst in the press we read tales of the unfortunate few who seem to have suffered through illegal cannabis use, hundreds of thousands of victimless users including those who find medical benefit face prosecution each year.

"Estimates of the number of cannabis users in the UK range from 3 to 7 million - in Europe over 70 million - and ALL those people are regarded as criminals. It cannot be normal to have that number of "criminals" on our streets! Something must be wrong.

"It is time for the Government to admit that prohibition of cannabis has been a dreadful failure and to look at alternatives - such as a controlled system of supply for adults, allowing small scale cultivation at home for own use and non-profit collective growing clubs.

"It is time for the Government to heed the expert advice and take the control of supply out of the hands of criminal dealers and start protecting users instead of criminalising them.

Notes for Editors

Alun Buffry
http://www.lca-uk.org/

Peace[/quote]

You have to wonder what they would do if only half of those people suddenly showed up to the police stations to turn themselves in, I just thought about this and I relly have no idea because while according to law they should arrested, there is no possible way they all could be, there simply wouldnt be room anywhere, not to mention the sudden hike in the amount of food needing to be served to these people, it would be a complete and utter disaster and I would be willing to bet that a sudden influx like that would cripple the economy.
Quote:No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
...Because even if there were no artifacts anywhere, not studying things of interest is an extreme disservice to science. -Tarius
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Quote:You have to wonder what they would do if only half of those people suddenly showed up to the police stations to turn themselves in, I just thought about this and I relly have no idea because while according to law they should arrested, there is no possible way they all could be, there simply wouldnt be room anywhere, not to mention the sudden hike in the amount of food needing to be served to these people, it would be a complete and utter disaster and I would be willing to bet that a sudden influx like that would cripple the economy.

Cue the Twilight Zone™ music.
A few of the activists over at CC were just tossing around that idea a week or two ago following a bust on a cannabis friendly cafe in Toronto.
The problem though is getting enough people willing to be arrested to swamp the cops. Personally, I thought it was a great idea.

Peace
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What I was getting at in terms of an economic trump card Obama could play is to enter the competition in "industrial hemp".
I don't know how many acres Canada has planted, but I'm under the impression it's limited(?)
What if the US massively plants seed hemp to impact the bio-diesel market...or fiber hemp to cut into the cotton and paper markets...etc...etc...???
You're looking at a $100 billion/yr industry springing up practically overnight...for starters......
Once the US floods the world with superior hemp products, then everyone else will follow suit.

It's the fundamental dislocations in key commodity markets due to cannabis prohibition which result in, for instance, cotton being the chief user of petroleum-based agrochemicals...or forests being cut down for wood pulp. I saw an item in Scientific American years ago that said 50->100 THOUSAND trees are required to produce one daily printing of The NY Times!!!
You're looking at...do the math :uni: THEY DON'T LIKE ME !!! <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/whip.gif" alt="Whip" title="whip" />
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[quote author="Kalter Rauch"]What I was getting at in terms of an economic trump card Obama could play is to enter the competition in "industrial hemp".
I don't know how many acres Canada has planted, but I'm under the impression it's limited(?)
What if the US massively plants seed hemp to impact the bio-diesel market...or fiber hemp to cut into the cotton and paper markets...etc...etc...???
You're looking at a $100 billion/yr industry springing up practically overnight...for starters......
Once the US floods the world with superior hemp products, then everyone else will follow suit.

It's the fundamental dislocations in key commodity markets due to cannabis prohibition which result in, for instance, cotton being the chief user of petroleum-based agrochemicals...or forests being cut down for wood pulp. I saw an item in Scientific American years ago that said 50->100 THOUSAND trees are required to produce one daily printing of The NY Times!!!
You're looking at...do the math :uni: THEY DON'T LIKE ME !!! Yak They stink from miles away (I guess that's why they put those plants in the middle of nowhere). So to make a short story long, around here they don't cut trees to make paper, it's just a way to use up the waste from cutting for lumber.

Peace
Government is nothing more than the rationalization and exercise of violence. Everything done by government contains at least the implicit threat of lethal coercion. <br /><br />- William N. Grigg
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Quote:[quote author="Kalter Rauch"]What I was getting at in terms of an economic trump card Obama could play is to enter the competition in "industrial hemp".
I don't know how many acres Canada has planted, but I'm under the impression it's limited(?)
What if the US massively plants seed hemp to impact the bio-diesel market...or fiber hemp to cut into the cotton and paper markets...etc...etc...???
You're looking at a $100 billion/yr industry springing up practically overnight...for starters......
Once the US floods the world with superior hemp products, then everyone else will follow suit.

It's the fundamental dislocations in key commodity markets due to cannabis prohibition which result in, for instance, cotton being the chief user of petroleum-based agrochemicals...or forests being cut down for wood pulp. I saw an item in Scientific American years ago that said 50->100 THOUSAND trees are required to produce one daily printing of The NY Times!!!
You're looking at...do the math :uni: THEY DON'T LIKE ME !!! Yak They stink from miles away (I guess that's why they put those plants in the middle of nowhere). So to make a short story long, around here they don't cut trees to make paper, it's just a way to use up the waste from cutting for lumber.

Peace

You got that right, making paper really does stink badly, I have been by one before and for at least a couple miles the place stinks, almost enough to make me sick.

But yes, cutting logs now is very efficient, with a computer scanning each log so it can be cut into as many good sized boards as possible, the bulk of it will go into boards of course, ancd I guess it does make sense to have the leftovers go to paper.

Quote:Ok, I see your point (either way though, I needed to rant).
It's not that the amount of hemp grown is limited, it's just that it's a bureaucratic nightmare for those doing it. Huge amounts of paper work and all kinds of restrictions like you can't have ever had any drug charges against you, you must be a certified seed grower, etc., etc. It's starting to be grown a lot more now that processing plants for hemp are becoming more common place and other farmers are seeing it as a viable crop.

Yes, the whole problem with it right now is the legal stuff which is absolutly rediculous due to the low amount of THC in industrial hemp, it would be easier to get high off of random mushrooms or cold medicine, and that has a chance of killing you. If they really feel people could get at the stuff all they should do is fence it and get some guards armed wih tranq darts, which is still rediculous. Its all still about a threat to the various industries and so long as people dont band together or there is money to be made, it will never be easy or legalized to grow it.
Quote:No mountain is too tall if your first step is belief. -Anonymous
...Because even if there were no artifacts anywhere, not studying things of interest is an extreme disservice to science. -Tarius
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[quote]Ok, I see your point (either way though, I needed to rant).
It's not that the amount of hemp grown is limited, it's just that it's a bureaucratic nightmare for those doing it. Huge amounts of paper work and all kinds of restrictions like you can't have ever had any drug charges against you, you must be a certified seed grower, etc., etc. It's starting to be grown a lot more now that processing plants for hemp are becoming more common place and other farmers are seeing it as a viable crop.

On the forestry side, I can't speak for how it done down there, but in my area, they are quite efficient. A tree is cut down and cut into lumber lumber length logs (8'/12'/16'). The top part of the tree (that isn't big enough to make lumber) get cut up into chips that are made into paper. It goes to the mill where the bark and saw dust get used to heat the lumber mills (called hog fuel - yes it is a stupid name but I didn't name it). The slabs on the outside of the log that get cut off from cutting them into lumber are also cut into chips to make paper. However, certain types of wood, such as poplar, aren't good for making paper so the tops of those trees are spread over the cut area and used as (it's too early to think of the proper word so I'll use) mulch for the replacement trees that are then planted. Having said that, the problem I have with the tree/paper industry is the chemicals they use. Drive anywhere near a town that has a paper plant and you'll :uni: ...which can't be easily factored out because they serve as a pest barrier.
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