Thread Rating:
  • 4 Vote(s) - 4.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Walking on Water: Man on Cydonia
#1
There is no pressure like hydraulic pressure.
Naughty
Don't follow the water.

HUNT THE WATER!!!
Remote dowsing.,
No more excuses should we reasonably and reliably find the closest source of H2o that can support that mission.
Ideally...a sustainable colony must be realised.

Time is trickling When mission planning is imminent
Cydonia NOW!


Water is Fuel

Water is a Tool

Water is Life

Water is in Cydonia

Mission to Cydonia.
Plain and simple

Where do you think the closest first mission source of water is...

.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#2
Well Clay I think the text from here in NASA's own 'mouth' lends support to at least having the next LANDER land there and go exploring.

http://themis.asu.edu/features/cydonia

From their main page:

"The equatorial regions have since dried out to depths of hundreds of meters (yards) or more, but the middle latitudes, including places such as Cydonia, may have water-ice-rich ground only a few meters down. Water's presence has implications for the chances of possible life - and it might even be of direct use to future human explorers. "


IF there's such a great possibility for life and water...

THEN PUT THE NEXT FRACKING LANDER THERE !!!

As for putting humans there...they will likely follow a lander. So all the more reason to get the next lander in Cydonia.

In addition, I believe Cydonia is the only region on the USGS minerological map whose origins are named "Enigmatic Origins"

So THIS is another reason for both lander and humans to make Cydonia THE most important landing site to go to.

Until we get radar data released about underground 'structures/water/other' we can't call this data into the argument. We CAN however PUSH for this data to be released ASAP. We've some HiRes images released but NONE of the subsurface data released so far. tmk.

Plus we have to get some political muscle more than we have now. How we do that is beyond my helping with for the moment. Hopefully this will change in time.

Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
Reply
#3
Not a bad idea. HOws virgin galactic these days? Havent kept up with the developments of that company. Still going to build a NEO space port in N.M? Ive heard that water holds excellent conductance of current and magnetic properties. Saw an old film of a submarine that was powered by water alone. Would be sweet if Cydonia had enough water to be mined to be used for power up there.
'I could be bounded in a nutshell and count myself a king of infinite space...' Shakespeare, Hamlet, Act 2, Scene 2
Reply
#4
I think that there will be plenty of water
locked up in water ice in the soils around Cydonia.
That part is a given.
Settlements created by colonizational efforts
will have priorities for locations combining
water resource and mineral/metals resource.

Economic interests will prevail over
esoteric curiousities,
which Cydonia will be relegated to,
unless of course,
either undeniable evidence is found of artificiality,
or economic resource adaptable to colonizational
constructs and expansion,
are found there.

Basically ,
if Cydonia only has water resource
locked in briny soils, '
and no other tangible assets,
it is relegated to a tourist site status.

And you know where funding is applied to,
in expensive initial colonization.......
Resources.
Reply
#5
Thread Cross Reference:

http://www.keithlaney.net/phpBB/viewtop ... 8&start=19

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Reply
#6
[Image: dn11030-1_250.jpg]

Hints of huge water reservoirs on Mars
19:00 25 January 2007
NewScientist.com news service
David Shiga



Mars once had enough water for a global ocean several hundred metres deep, but where has it gone? (Illustration: NASA/Greg Shirah)
ASPERA-3
Mars Express, ESA
David Brain, UC Berkeley
Mars is losing little water to space, according to new research, so much of its ancient abundance may still be hidden beneath the surface.

Dried up riverbeds and other evidence imply that Mars once had enough water to fill a global ocean more than 600 metres deep, together with a thick atmosphere of carbon dioxide that kept the planet warm enough for the water to be liquid. But the planet is now very dry and has a thin atmosphere.

Some scientists have proposed that the Red Planet lost its water and CO2 to space as the solar wind stripped molecules from the top of the planet's atmosphere. Measurements by Russia's Phobos-2 probe to Mars in 1989 hinted that the loss was quite rapid.

Now the European Space Agency's Mars Express spacecraft has revealed that the rate of loss is much lower. Stas Barabash of the Swedish Institute of Space Physics in Kiruna led a team that used data from Mars Express's ASPERA-3 instrument (Analyzer of Space Plasmas and Energetic Atoms).

Its measurements suggest the whole planet loses only about 20 grams per second of oxygen and CO2 to space, only about 1% of the rate inferred from Phobos-2 data.

If this rate has held steady over Mars's history, it would have removed just a few centimetres of water, and a thousandth of the original CO2.

Huge amounts
Either some other process removed the water and CO2 or they are still present and hidden somewhere on Mars, probably underground, Barabash says. "We are talking about huge amounts of water," he told New Scientist. "To store it somewhere requires a really big, huge reservoir."

Barabash is not sure what form this reservoir – or reservoirs – would take, but he points to findings from NASA's now lost Mars Global Surveyor (MGS). This data provided evidence that water had gushed down slopes on Mars in recent years, possibly originating from beneath the surface (see Water flows on Mars before our very eyes). "So there might be some possibilities for water existing in liquid form even now," he says.

Quote:"If water is there, I think it will put all ideas about human missions to Mars on a completely different level," he says. "It's not only water to support [astronauts], but also a potential fuel." Hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel can be produced from water.

Stormy weather
However, the researchers point out that other mechanisms might have removed water and CO2 from Mars, such as asteroid and comet impacts. Or the solar wind might have sheared off of whole chunks of atmosphere rather than individual molecules.

Another possibility is suggested by Mars atmosphere expert David Brain at the University of California in Berkeley, US. He points out that magnetic storms might boost the rate at which the solar wind strips molecules from the atmosphere.

"We believe that solar storms were frequent and more intense early on in the solar system's history," he told New Scientist. Even so, Brain thinks that some of Mars's ancient water and CO2 is still stored in hidden reservoirs.

======================================

RCH must be smiling,thinking of ice and cities under poof-dust.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#7
From EAs post

".....Now the European Space Agency's Mars Express spacecraft
has revealed that the rate of loss is much lower...

... planet loses only about... 1% of the rate inferred
from Phobos-2 data....

...If this rate has held steady over Mars's history,
it would have removed just a few centimetres of water,
and a thousandth of the original CO2...."

"....the researchers point out other mechanisms
might have removed water and CO2 from Mars,
such as asteroid and comet impacts...."


Uh-oh, Velikovsky right again ?
Sooo that means that the oceans could have been there
well past the Noachian designations .

I have posted many times
that there are subterranean oceans on Mars,
and there is most likely a complete underground river system
connecting the various subterranean seas,
those seas extending into deep crevasses
within the deep Martian crust which in parts is thicker than Earths..

If there are subterranean oceans ,
they are deep enough to be liquid,
and if they come into contact
with magmatic source intrusions,
then huge volumes of water
will be belched up onto the surface periodically,
creating some of the catastrphismic topographies we see,
and there will lots of life in the dark depths .



Quote from EA post
"....."It's not only water to support [astronauts],
but also a potential fuel.
" Hydrogen and oxygen for rocket fuel
can be produced from water...."


they should be talking about Hydrogen Peroxide fuel.

FUTURE OF HYDROGEN PEROXIDE FOR SPACE PROPULSION
AND POWER APPLICATIONS
J. J. Rusek
Swift Enterprises, Ltd., West Lafayette, Indiana,
Tel: 765-464-8336, Fax: 765-464-1877, http://www.swiftenterprises.net
ABSTRACT
Hydrogen peroxide has seen a resurgence in recent years
within the aerospace community. A summary of current
enabling technologies and near technologies is given,
with regard to hydrogen peroxide and purely physical
technologies for propulsion and power.
Finally, mission scenarios are shown for a transatmospheric vehicle,
and a Mars colonization effort.

Higher concentrations of hydrogen peroxide, specifically
those from 85 to 100%, contain significant energy. The
heat of decomposition of 100% hydrogen peroxide at
77 OF is 1240 BTU/lb. This high inherent energy content,
coupled with the resurgence in its availability led
researchers in the propulsion, energy conversion and
power generation communities to explore its use in a
variety of applications.

CATALYSIS
The chemical energy of hydrogen peroxide can be
released by direct decomposition with an active catalyst
or electrocatalyst. The catalyst has the function of
reducing the activation energy of the decomposition
reaction, thereby making the reaction more spontaneous.
The use of a solid catalyst or catalyst pack with liquid
hydrogen peroxide is termed heterogeneous catalysis;
when the catalyst is dissolved in an appropriate carrier or
fuel, the process is termed homogeneous catalysis.
The summer of 1993 saw the discovery of both
heterogeneous and homogeneous catalysts for the
effective decomposition of 98% high-test hydrogen
peroxide, at the United States Air Force Rocket
Propulsion Laboratory and the United States Naval Air
Warfare Center, respectively.
The summer of 1997 saw the re-definition of Rocket
Grade Hydrogen Peroxide (RGHP) within the US
Department of Defense, defined at 98% and anhydrous
compositions, and the discovery of Non-toxic Hypergolic
Miscible Fuels (NHMFs) for bipropellant applications, at
the Naval Air Warfare Center. The summers of 1998
and 1999 saw the discoveries of further enhanced energy
fuels when used in conjunction with hydrogen peroxide
of highest strength, at the Naval Air Warfare Center and
Purdue University, respectively.
Page 3
At about the same time, research was being conducted at
Purdue University on electrical energy production by the
electrochemical oxidation of aluminum alloys coupled
with the concurrent reduction of hydrogen peroxide.
The enabling energy conversion devices and
technologies that use the above novel technologies and
well-established technologies are the RGHP/kerosene
staged bipropellant engines, RGHP mono-propellant
thrusters, RGHP turbomachinery, RGHP/NHMF
bipropellant engines and aluminum/hydrogen peroxide
fuel cells.
NEAR TECHNOLOGIES
• CHEMICAL PROPUSION AND POWER
Researchers at Swift Organic Propellants have
discovered classes of hydrocarbon miscible non-toxic
fuels for use with RGHP that meet or exceed the density-
impulse and ignition delay characteristics of
conventional toxic hypergols in use today.
Research is being conducted at Swift Enterprises, Ltd.,
on direct methanol – hydrogen peroxide fuel cells, direct
hydrogen peroxide fuel cells, and direct electrolytic
production of hydrogen peroxide within volume-limited
vehicles.
Page 4
• PHYSICAL PROPULSION AND POWER
Active research areas, also at Swift, are the establishment
of direct energy conversion and propulsive power
devices. To this end, experiments are being conducted in
the Electrokinetic Propulsion effect, specifically applied
to vacuum conditions.
Research within the US Naval Surface Warfare Center
and at the University of Illinois has shown the promise of
Inertial Electrostatic Confinement fusion devices. These
devices are hoped to provide 100 to 500 MW stationary
power capability in an extremely small volume.
The above green technologies have the capability to
enable the utilization of space, specifically the
commercialization of other planets.
MISSION SCENARIOS
•
TRANSATMOSPHERIC VEHICLE (TAV)
The Electrokinetic Propulsion effect has the potential to
allow transport of persons and materials into space in a
manner that bypasses current size, weight, and fuel
considerations.
Currently, in order to transfer payloads into
Geostationary Earth Orbit, launch systems payload to net
weight ratios are well under 0.10. As a general rule, even
the most inexpensive of such systems are not reusable. A
transatmospheric vehicle powered by onboard Inertial
Electrostatic Confinement reactors and propelled by
Electrokinetic Propulsors has the potential to allow
payload to gross weight factors of better than 0.5. Fuel
and fuel systems onboard this vehicle will be responsible
for less than 1% of the spacecraft’s weight. The TAV
would also be a reusable launch vehicle, and would
therefore possess the benefits of such systems.
Modern day launch systems are also limited as to the
geometric size of their cargo. Cargo to be transferred into
orbit must be able to fit into the aerodynamic airframe
that rockets possess in order to reduce drag upon launch.
The airframe of an Electrokinetic Propulsion based
system will not be constrained by such concerns and
therefore has the potential to allow the transport of
bulky, low-density cargo into space.
Page 5
A teardrop geometry is utilized in the design of the
transatmospheric vehicle’s main drive, which produces
thrust along the axis of symmetry of the teardrop. This
drive is what is used to launch the TAV from Earth’s
surface to GEO and back. Even though drag is not a
major consideration (due to the small amount of time
spent in the atmosphere and the low velocities
experienced while within it), the pseudo-aerodynamic
shape of the craft lowers the atmospheric drag produced
by the craft when compared to blunt bodied designs.
As well as having a main drive system to propel the
craft, this design also has maneuvering thrusters in order
to position the craft into any orientation. These thrusters
are located around the circumference of the craft and are
smaller versions of the main asymmetric capacitors that
are on the top and bottom of the TAV. These smaller
capacitors operate in much the same manner as the main
capacitors, but have a much more restricted available
thrust.
Since the IEC power device is lightweight and is small in
size, the design is easily incorporated as the power plant
for the TAV. Utilizing a theoretical IEC output of 100
megawatts with an EKP thrust device, an airframe design
capable of carrying a larger volume and greater mass
than the STS was established. The actual output of the
current IEC design is, obviously, much lower than 100
megawatts. A set of experiments are being done to relate
grid size and geometry to data obtained from the
University of Illinois in order to verify its validity.

• MARTIAN POWER AND PROPULSION
A fusion plant is part of an energy economy explored in
a Martian colonization mission. Project Starlight is the
first; it is the primary source of energy from Inertial
Electrostatic Confinement fusion. Its design is based
around 100 megawatts of delivered electrical power.
Most of this energy will be used by the Martian colonists
in proximity of the reactor as the local power grid. For
remote units such as exploration vehicles, the energy
must be stored.
Project Sonic is a device that makes
hydrogen peroxide from the Martian atmosphere
and power generated from Project Starlight.

A set of Project Sonic devices
would be a part of the colony,
and would be driven directly from the Project Starlight power grid.

Project Echo is a set of fuel cells that run on the
manufactured hydrogen peroxide;
it can produce enough
power for remote exploration posts and large vehicles.

Page 6
Project Sonic utilizes indigenous resources on the surface
of Mars to produce 150 kg of 50% H2O2
per Martian day
to supply a fuel cell.
Project Sonic accomplishes this
level of output by extracting water and oxygen from the
Martian atmosphere to use in the electrolytic production
of hydrogen peroxide. The concentration of the output is
then adjusted by way of a vacuum (ambient) distillation
column.

Project Echo can safely and reliably provide 50 kilowatts
of peak electrical power. This power output can be
sustained give sufficient refueling of hydrogen peroxide.
With 150 kg of hydrogen peroxide per day, the fuel cell
can output an average of 7kW continuously.
The problems of fuel consumption are far outweighed by
the benefits of a fuel cell in which all exhaust products
are recyclable.
For these reasons,
the Echo Hydrogen Peroxide fuel cell
is the best choice for a 50kW power
source.


ACKNOWLEDGEMENTS
TAV:
Airframe – M. Kuipers, P. Kennedy, Purdue University
Propulsion – D. Berger, B. Stein, Purdue University
Power – H. Crockett, J. Walter, Purdue University
PROJECT STARLIGHT:
S. Hanna, J. Helms, A. Irvine, D. Miller, C. Hamilton,
Purdue University
PROJECT SONIC:
J. Matthews, P. Kennedy, D. Johnston, I. Bulathsinghala,
Purdue University
PROJECT ECHO:
D. Brodrecht, T. Hoverman, C Kirchner, R. McKowen,
Purdue University
Reply
#8
Vianova:

Military offspins?

Mars space exploration funding =

1% life/water "payload" research on Mars

to 99% military "net weight" research
on Wars! Sort of upside down thinking!

It's gonna be a long wait!


EA:
Interesting info to add to "water" record.
And yes the big southern "bulge" means
lots of opportunity for subterranean water
transport through obliquity cycles etc..

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Reply
#9
Orpbit says

"...Vianova:
Military offspins?

Mars space exploration funding =
1% life/water "payload"
research on Mars

to 99% military "net weight" research
on Wars!
Sort of upside down thinking!

It's gonna be a long wait!..."


Yes indeed
A long wait.
Now if a Martian microbe or lifeform
displays unique biowarfare capabilities,
for pharmaterror-military research,
then you will see funding go thru the roof
for aquisition of strains or bodies
for biomedical research .
Likewise certain fungi or lichenous growths
may contain unique compounds
that either create,
or completely control disease here on Earth.
Some life on Mars may exhibit antioxidant compounds
that are replicatable for Pharma profits.
Point being,
if lifeforms on Mars are beneficial to pharma-military research,
and create venues of optimal economic developmental priority,
then funding is directed to those vectors,
and money will be put into overall life search .

Now , when the starship troopers are stationed in Mars
, their vaccine regimen may include Martian specific pathogens,
and so big pharmaterror is exported interplanetray,
and makes money on Mars for the military-medical complex.
at the get go.

Microbes on Mars may somehow be incorporated
in energy applications as well.
Evolutionary uniquities on Mars may have photosynthetic DNA
beyond our wildest dreams of creation.,
'adaptable to replicative nanotechnologies,...etc ...

What about fossil fuels ?
Haliburton on Mars
drilling for
oil.
Coal deposits ?

The water is everywhere,
it is the other tangible resources that predicate funding parameters
in relation to water resource location.
Reply
#10
To illustrate why Cydonia can be reasonably assessed as a water rich region,thus in itself,rightfully taking back it's place as a possible viking landing site,passing that test decadeds ago,we can extrapolate from that time decades ago and reinstitute it as a passover for the last robotic missions because they would be ill-suited and fill in volumes of data now and reconsider this enigmatic region with the first manned landing.
I aim to offer analogous earth landforms,that can be utilised to make it happen...
Mission to Cydonia ( M2C )
=================================

Pingo:Wikipedia-

Pingo
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
A pingo is a mound of earth-covered ice found in the Arctic, subarctic, and Antarctica that can reach up to 70 metres in height and up to 2 kilometres in diameter.

The name comes from the Inuit word for a small hill. The plural is 'pingos'.

Contents [hide]
1 Locations
2 Types
3 Formation
4 History



[edit] Locations
Tuktoyaktuk in the Mackenzie Delta has one of the highest concentrations of pingos. Other places with pingos include Alaska, Greenland, and the Norwegian island of Spitsbergen.

In Siberia, pingos are known as bulganniakh, from the Yakut language.


[edit] Types
Pingos are generally classified as hydrostatic (closed-system) or hydraulic (open-system). Hydrostatic-system pingos result from hydrostatic pressure on water from permafrost, and commonly form in drained lakes or river channels. Hydraulic-system pingos result from water flowing from an outside source, and are less well understood.

Relict hydrostatic (closed-system) and hydraulic (open-system) pingos may be distinguished from each other by determining if lacustrine (lake) deposits are associated with the formation.


[edit] Formation
Pingos can only form in a permafrost environment. Evidence of collapsed pingos (ognip) in an area suggests that there was once permafrost.

Pingos usually grow only a few centimetres per year and the largest take decades or even centuries to form. The process that creates pingos is believed to be closely related to frost heaving.

Pingos are generally classified as hydrostatic (closed-system) or hydraulic (open-system). Hydrostatic-system pingos form as a result of hydrostatic pressure on water from permafrost, and commonly form in drained lakes or river channels. Hydraulic-system pingos result from water flowing from an outside source, subpermafrost or intrapermafrost aquifers. Hydrostatic pressure initializes the formation of the ice core as water is pushed up and subsequently freezes. Open-system pingos have no limitations to the amount of water available unless the aquifers freeze. They often occur at the base of slopes and are commonly known as Greenland type.

finally I quote:
Quote:Pingos eventually break down and collapse. The current estimate is that pingos can last about 1000 years.


[edit] History
The term pingo was first borrowed from the Inuit by the arctic botanist AE Porsild in 1938. Porsild Pingo in Tuktoyaktuk is named in his honor.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingo"
Category: Landforms
==================================

about 1000 years,hmmm...
that means on an transposed scale to mars...This is happening now.
I can make a case for Cydonia,and it has become outside of normal day-to-day activity,a main drive.
I am of opinion Cydonia is a goldmine of pro's against the con's.
Merely judging  a 6x6 degree general swath of the surrounding attributes and differing geology invites a concentrated and dedicated resource inventory,for this dichotic region surely has much differing materials and minerals to mine,due course,refine and benefit a tenative toe-hold.

I see floating icebergs melting alongside the natural geology...and  a city under ice,and snow,and poof-dust.
But through the geological/topological element known as a pingo
I can demonstrate a resource RIPE for the taking!
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#11
Quote:Pingos eventually break down and collapse. The current estimate

is that pingos can last about 1000 years.
[Image: ImageServer%3Fversion%3Dviewer-new%26ins...ormat=jpeg]
http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/V19259012.html
http://themis-data.asu.edu/img/browse/V ... stretch=S2



[edit] History
The term pingo was first borrowed from the Inuit by the arctic botanist AE Porsild in 1938. Porsild Pingo in Tuktoyaktuk is named in his honor.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pingo"
Category: Landforms

[Image: 220px-Melting_pingo_wedge_ice.jpg]



http://www.cits.rncan.gc.ca/guide/pingo/pg07_e.html[/url]

http://www.cits.rncan.gc.ca/guide/pingo/...4_05_f.jpg
http://www.cits.rncan.gc.ca/guide/pingo/...4_01_e.gif

[Image: 220px-Pingos_near_Tuk.jpg]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#12
EA:

Cheers
Reply
#13
Yes, Pingos exist on Mars... I have seen them for quite a while and know them as such. Also lots of liquid water and swamps exist on Mars during the summer.
Reply
#14
I offered pingoes to illustrate that instead of mining,the surface...extract what the depths offer up as sacrifice to Man's arrival.
The bounty from below and within,offered up on a conical altar to those who thirst.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#15
Remember that internet pseudo-septic Don?

Cydonia is just Rocks eh?
Crush 'em and you get rocket fuel potential.

-------------------.-
Deep Hydrogen (in 'Just Rocks'. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/muaha.gif" alt="Muaha" title="muaha" /> )
==================================
June 16, 2008 / Written by: David Tenenbaum

Hydrogen is the simplest, lightest, and most common element in the universe. Although the hydrogen molecule (H2) is highly reactive, and therefore rare in Earth’s atmosphere, it is usually found at parts per million levels in deep drill holes.

That hydrogen might be a mere curiosity – or it might be relevant to the hot conditions where life seems to have originated. In 2005, Kenneth Nealson of the University of Southern California suggested that sub-surface microbial communities can get energy from hydrogen without needing any products of photosynthesis. And in 2006, Norman Pace of the University of Colorado reported that most of the microbes in Yellowstone National Park’s hot springs get their energy from hydrogen, rather than from sulfur, as had been assumed.

If hydrogen is the energy source at the base of the food chain in those extremophile-rich locations, then it may have played the same role when the early ancestors of these bacteria first appeared on Earth – and perhaps elsewhere.

But what is the source of the molecular hydrogen in deep rocks? And if it indeed is the sole source of energy for deep geologic bacteria, is it still being produced?

The accepted hydrogen-generating processes cannot produce all of the molecular hydrogen that has been found in so many deep drill holes, says Friedemann Freund, a principal investigator at the SETI Institute and a NASA Ames Associate.

Just as some microbes consume hydrogen, other species produce it. But hydrogen is also found in igneous rocks that have just cooled down from magmatic temperatures, where it is too hot for microbes to survive. That hydrogen had to have formed abiotically.

Hydrogen is liberated in chemical reactions that occur when water touches freshly fractured surfaces of rocks bearing iron and other elements, but the reaction quickly ceases, and Freund argues that not enough deep rocks are being fractured to account for the amount of hydrogen that has been found. Hydrogen is also made by the process of serpentinization, which occurs when rocks called peridotite, containing the mineral olivine, rise from the mantle and contact superhot water, but serpentinization “cannot occur in stable parts of the continents because no peridotite is being brought up from the depths” there, says Freund.

So what did make the traces of hydrogen found in most or all deep drill holes, even three to five kilometers deep? And why does hydrogen seep for hundreds of hours when common rocks are crushed – even if their surfaces are dry, and thus could not be producing hydrogen by the well-known processes?

Freund dates his explanation to the 1960s, when he studied how water becomes incorporated into minerals. “The water molecules do not survive,” he says. “They are ripped apart, forming OH-, hydroxyl ions.” Freund found the results puzzling — some hydroxyls that should have been present were missing – until he recognized that the missing hydroxyls were producing molecular hydrogen: “The proton in the hydroxyl ion and the oxygen atom get into a domestic fight over an electron… and the proton rips away an electron from the oxygen and becomes a hydrogen atom,” which contains one proton and one electron.

And two of these “domestic brawls,” Freund says, would produce one molecule of hydrogen. This reaction, Freund says, seems to occur during the cooling of both igneous and metamorphic rocks.

Since rocks usually pick up some water when they crystallize from magma, Freund adds, “this led to the idea that maybe all rocks would contain molecular hydrogen.” And to the extent that this cooling is still taking place, hydrogen generation inside rocks may also be an ongoing process.

In 2002, Freund and colleagues reported that they detected hydrogen molecules after crushing three types of the most common igneous rocks, and that the hydrogen stream was still gaining strength when they stopped measuring 200 hours later. Apparently, Freund says, the hydrogen within the mineral grains continued to seep out through the freshly created fracture surfaces.

According to his calculations, one cubic meter of rock could produce 5 liters of hydrogen (at standard pressure and temperature). That is not a flood of hydrogen, but it is a slow, steady outflow that seems to be regulated – in nature – by liquid water films that fill the narrow space between mineral grains. Water can only contain a certain amount of hydrogen. Once it became saturated with hydrogen, the outflow would stop, leaving the hydrogen molecules trapped between the rock grains. But if the hydrogen level were dropping – as it would if microbes entered the system after the rock cooled and were consuming hydrogen – then more hydrogen would get released from the rock.

In early experiments, he says, hydrogen has appeared as expected. “In the moment of crushing, molecular hydrogen rushes out from inside the mineral grains simply because we created a fresh surface. After that, hydrogen molecules that are close to the fracture surface migrate slowly through the crystal structure and are released. The process works from the inside out. There is no need to add water to react with the fracture surfaces,” because the hydrogen already exists between the rock grains.

The flow also persists, he adds. “We place the powders into other containers and wait for weeks, measuring whether hydrogen will continue to be released. It works, we see the hydrogen coming out.”

Because hydrogen is formed inside the mineral grains in the rocks whenever molten rock cools below 600 degrees centigrade, Freund adds, “It’s my assertion that in all these large volumes of igneous and metamorphic rock that form Earth’s continents, every mineral grain is a potential source of hydrogen. It’s not very much hydrogen per unit volume rock, but very large in total mass.”


The hypothesis is still viewed with skepticism, admits Freund, a professor of physics at San Jose State University in California, and his physics-oriented approach has had trouble getting accepted among geologists, but it is “undisputed that hydrogen is available throughout the rock column. Whether you sink a drill 3 to 5 kilometers down in the Canadian Shield, or near the San Andreas fault, or in Hawaii, you will find hydrogen everywhere. The hydrogen is so common that nobody reports it, yet we have it everywhere. So nobody has gotten serious, and asked, where does this hydrogen come from?”

Quote:A NASA exobiology/evolutionary biology grant will enable Freund to pursue this research by quantifying the flow of hydrogen more precisely. “We now have set up a station where we can bust rocks,” says Freund. “We will take a piece of dry rock the size of your thumb and crush it between two tungsten carbide plates, with a pressure of 30 tons, to produce a fine powder.”

If rock-generated hydrogen is supplying the energy for microbes deep in the rock column on Earth, the same could have happened on Mars in the past — or could even be happening in the present, Freund says

In-situ fuel production,inching closer...to feasability.
A goal to self sustaining the future Cydonian colonists.

http://astrobiology.nasa.gov/articles/deep-hydrogen/
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#16
Martian soil 'could support life'

Quote:Martian soil appears to contain sufficient nutrients to support life - or, at least, asparagus - Nasa scientists believe.

Preliminary analysis by the $420m (£210m) Phoenix Mars Lander mission on the planet's soil found it to be much more alkaline than expected.

Scientists working on the spacecraft project said they were "flabbergasted" by the discovery.

The find has raised hopes conditions on Mars may be favourable for life.

"We basically have found what appears to be the requirements, the nutrients, to support life, whether past, present or future," said Sam Kounaves, the project's lead chemist, from the University of Arizona.

Exciting data

Although he said further tests would have to be conducted, Mr Kounaves said the soil seemed "very friendly… there is nothing about it that is toxic," he said.

  We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back

Sam Kounaves
University of Arizona

"It is the type of soil you would probably have in your back yard - you know, alkaline. You might be able to grow asparagus in it really well."

As well as being far less acidic than anticipated, the soil was also found to contain traces of magnesium, sodium, potassium and other elements.

"We were all flabbergasted at the data we got back," said Mr Kounaves. "It is very exciting for us."

The analysis is based on a cubic centimetre of soil scooped from 2.5cm (one inch) below Mars' surface by the lander's robotic arm.

The sample was then tested using the "wet chemistry" technique, which involves mixing the soil with water brought from Earth and heating the sample in one of the lander's eight ovens.

Ice stores

After a 10-month flight from Earth, Phoenix touched down successfully on Mars' northern plains on 25 May, to undertake a three-month study of the planet's geological history.

[Image: _44701372_phoenix_lander466.gif]

Hmmm...not being forced by specialist scientific blinders to see only a narrow view.
Anomalists can easily fill in gaps in ultra RECENT data and amalgamate it into a slightly more coherent package.

Read the Quote below:

Quote:The Arctic location where Phoenix touched down is thought to hold large stores of water-ice just below the surface.

Last week, scientists said they were positive there was ice on the planet after eight dice-sized chunks were seen melting away in a series of photographs.

But Phoenix has so far not detected organic carbon - considered an essential building block of life.

Thats Okay...because this Study found these carbons.

Just Rocks.

Life Cooked Up in Outer Space?
By Phil Berardelli
ScienceNOW Daily News
16 June 2008

The odds are improving that life exists beyond Earth. A European-U.S. team reports that a meteorite that formed billions of years ago and eventually crashed on our planet harbors two important components of RNA and DNA, the fundamental molecules of life. The findings could help explain how life got started on Earth, and they suggest that the ingredients for life have been liberally sprinkled throughout the solar system, if not the galaxy.
So far, the clues for extraterrestrial life are tantalizing but inconclusive. Radio astronomers have found organic chemicals floating in clouds of dust between the stars (ScienceNOW, 28 March). NASA's twin Mars Exploration Rovers have discovered evidence that liquid water once flowed, at least fitfully, on the Red Planet's surface (ScienceNOW, 13 December 2006). And planetary probes have uncovered organic molecules in the atmospheres of Jupiter, Saturn, and Saturn's giant moon Titan, as well as amino acids in meteorites.

The latest evidence is not a slam dunk, but it does suggest that life's most important molecule could form off our planet. The researchers dissolved and purified fragments from the Murchison meteorite, which was found in Australia in 1969. Chemical analysis showed that the meteorite contains xanthine and uracil, substances called nucleobases that are necessary for RNA and DNA to form their base pairs as part of their replication process. Furthermore, the researchers report in the 15 June issue of Earth and Planetary Science Letters, the carbon atoms in the two substances are in a heavy form that is extremely rare on Earth. As such, the findings represent the most complex molecules ever found to have originated in space.

[Image: 080616%20murchison.jpg]

"The two [molecules] present in the meteorite are definitely extraterrestrial," says astrobiologist and lead author Zita Martins of Imperial College London.

[Image: 2601882120_fd9c5ee93f.jpg]

She says it's unclear whether they were synthesized on the meteorite's parent asteroid or were formed in space and then stuck to the meteorite. "But we know that they may be formed in a variety of cosmic environments." From there, the molecules "were delivered ready-made to the early Earth," says astrobiologist and co-author Mark Sephton, also of Imperial College London. "If the early solar system was a store cupboard, it would have many of the simplest ingredients for the recipe of life."

Experts agree that the find is tantalizing. The work shows that the chemistry needed to make "the information-storage systems of life can take place in the extreme environment of space," says astrobiologist Andrew Steele of the Carnegie Institution of Washington. These molecules might not lead to life directly in space, he adds, but they might have jump-started it once they arrived on Earth. Astrobiologist Michael Mumma of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, adds that "the research demonstrates that bodies like Murchison likely delivered DNA precursors to planets in the solar system when they were young. ... If anything, the findings intensify interest in the possibility of life on Mars and large moons such as Titan and Europa, which are suspected of containing liquid water beneath their ice shells."
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#17
Also ,There is NO WAY Milspecs will be included.
No Crazy Soldiers.
When Cydonia is Colonised,The symbolism of the greek God Ares shall apply his duality.
His is an Agrarian God

[Image: Greg.gif]

as well as a War God duality ---and those Spears and Swords will definately be turned into Ploughshares and pruning-hooks.

[Image: MarsLettuceFarm.gif]

No suicide mission Crazy assed Army Freaks allowed!
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/26 ... s-will-go/

No. Naughty
You will stay behind on the Hell-Hole world that Spawned your ilke.

[Image: dsc002651-580x435.jpg]

The Tyler of Cydonia will severely repulse all Military efforts.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#18
Bini Shells
[Image: lunit1.html]
http://www.binisystems.com/

Quote:[Image: tnshell1-2.jpg]
[Image: tnshell3-4.jpg]
This patented method of construction, in approx. 60-120 minutes, produces circular-based, monolithic, reinforced concrete shell structures, with elliptical section, ranging in size from 12 to 40 meters in diameter. Over 1,500 buildings are in use in 23 Countries


Pop-Test!
Where would be the natural selection site for a BINI-Shell?
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#19
[Image: 2628313415_67e0d0762e_o.jpg]

If there are to be "BOOTS on the Ground"
We may need to enlist aid from this company.

Doc Martens.
As years go by...corporate sponsors will be auditioned.

Colonising Cydonia will not involve the Present Governments of Earth.
Those outdated Political forms will have no reach in the New World created Privately on Mars.
As Cydonia was Rejected by Scientific Mainstream,We will assume its responsible and orderly conversion to Human outpost and Eventual new form of Humanity.

Private Mission,with Benefits to all corporations that help Back the event ,though they will NEVER control the Events.
Money will draw them like flies...but they will be warned that the Actual Colonists and Colony will be Flypaper so don't get too close that you get STUCK,should any attempt a monopoly.

Quote:When the Dr. Martens boot first catapulted from a working-class essential to a counter-cultural icon back in the 1960s, the world was pre-internet, pre-MTV, pre-CD, pre-mp3s, pre-mobile phones … hey, they’d only just invented the teenager. In the years before the boot’s birthday, 1st April, 1960, kids just looked like tribute acts to their parents, younger but the same. Rebellion was only just on the agenda for some – for most kids of the day, starved of music, fashion, art and choice, it was not even an option.


But then an unlikely union of two kindred spirits in distinctly different countries ignited a phenomenon.

In Munich, Germany, Dr Maertens had a garage full of inventions, including a shoe sole almost literally made of air; in Northampton, England, the Griggs family had a history of making quality footwear and their heads were full of ideas. They met, like a classic band audition, through an advert in the classified pages of a magazine. A marriage was born, an icon conceived of innovation and self-expression.

Together they took risks.

They jointly created a boot that defined comfort but was practical, hard-wearing and a design classic. At first, like some viral infection, the so-called 1460 stooped near to the ground, kept a low profile, a quiet revolution.

But then something incredible started to happen.

The postmen, factory workers and transport unions who had initially bought the boot by the thousand, were joined by rejects, outcasts and rebels from the fringes of society.

At first, it was the working-classes; before long it was the masses.

Skinheads were the first subculture to adopt the boot in the early 1960s, spilling out of the East End of London, then across Britain and the world; initially non-racist and obsessive about their fashion, by the time the skinhead movement was corrupted with elements of right-wing extremism, Dr Martens had already morphed into a torchbearer for a brave new world.

The late 1960s and 1970s saw the boot adopted by – not thrust upon – nearly all the ‘tribes’: Mods, glam, punks, ska, psychobillies, grebos, Goths, industrialists, nu-metal, hardcore, straight-edge, grunge, Britpop …

Then pop started to eat itself.

The internet spread like an epidemic, reaching fifty million users in eighteen months – a feat that took radio forty years. The first mobile phone text was sent in 1992; within three years, email was like oxygen. Everything had changed.

There were no tribes anymore. At least, “not like they used to make ’em.”

You don’t see one tribe fighting another anymore, a haircut does not define a person to four albums by three bands.

The tribe is down to one person.

You.

A one-man army.

The personal revolution manifests itself in a million ways. So-called ‘indie’ and ‘punk’ record labels of the 1970s and 1980s were created to cut out the suits. They were called ‘labels’ because of the round adhesive label smack bang in the middle of the vinyl.
Vinyl?
CDs?
Now, you don’t even need a label.
Record, mix, master and post on the web from your own empire.
Hit the charts from downloads alone.

There is no one left to cut out. It’s all down to you.

Of course, just because we can all now ‘create’, doesn’t mean we are all actually any good. But the cream floats to the top, whatever the mode of transport.

Same with Dr. Martens.

Decades have come and gone, brands have exploded and then imploded, but the 1460 is still there, unique, individual, original. Anti-fashion defined in eight holes.

What’s seen as information overload to the older generation is just everyday surfing to the new generation. In one weekend edition of The New York Times, there is more information than a seventeenth century man was exposed to in his entire life. Dr. Martens haven’t been around since the 1600s, but in terms of ‘brands’ that mean something, that last, that reinvent and evolve, they pre-date pretty much everything.

By the mid-1990s, Dr. Martens had festered in the minds of youth without a single penny of ‘marketing spend’, longer than the majority of global brands had even existed. There is no comparison. This is not a brand, it is a way of thinking, a mode of expression.

The problem with ‘brands’ is that they dictate. They might offer the must-have item of the season, but they design it, shape it, form it and sell it. You have no say, other than handing over your money. Look at the word: ‘brand’. That’s what they do to cattle.

Rebel.

Create your own brand.

Dr. Martens have always been different. No other ‘brand’ has been mutated, customised,  fucked up and freaked out like DM’s. Without asking or being able to stop it. It happened to them. They were just fascinated bystanders on a journey that has raced through every crevice of subculture, every twist and turn of youthful creativity and now, here, with a generation who have always had email, mp3s and downloads, it is as relevant and vibrant as ever.

Because although the tribes no longer stride through London or New York, although individuality is the music for the masses, although fashion is just another way of defining yourself, the Dr. Martens ‘brand’ has come full circle, it is a blank canvas on which a generation can paint their personality. You can wear your grunge shorts, your emo hair, your punk tatts, your metal piercings and your pride on your sleeve, all at the same time, there are no limits, no boundaries, no pigeon-holes to fit into.

To be creative sometimes you have to rebel.

To rebel you have to have something to rebel against.

Driving fast, drinking cheap beer and smashing windows isn’t rebellion. The best form of rebellion is individualism. Thinking for yourself.

Information overload is the most fantastic element of modern life. You can have it all. You don’t need to align yourself with one band, one tribe, one venue, one gig; you can share your console with a complete stranger twenty thousand miles away; you can post your demo on a site that has a greater population than most countries.

But you need anchors in this sea of creativity.
You need things you can rely on.
Things you can recruit to your army.

Friends, whether they add you or not.
Tunes loaded, down.
Ideas loaded, up.
Fashions that express.
Possessions that matter.
Things that inspire self-expression, not commodities that spoon-feed an identity.

Dr. Martens anchor you, liberate your creativity, inspire and fuel your identity. Our heritage fits your future; your future is our future.

Martin Roach
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#20
The liquid Anomaly we call Water.



Quote:As liquid water is so common-place in our everyday lives, it is often regarded as a ‘typical’ liquid. In reality, water is most atypical as a liquid,

41 anomalies of water:

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/anmlies.html

If there is any doubt left in Don,Cydonia is as wet as  Lisa Nowak's depends,lol!

Here is the Admission by Bamf and Co.
http://themis.asu.edu/features/cydonia

Quote: Cydonia Mensae lies in Mars' northern hemisphere, on the ragged boundary between the cratered highlands of western Arabia Terra and the sprawling, flat northern lowlands of Acidalia. A geological transition zone, Cydonia includes eroded mesas, impact craters, and generally smooth ground separating them. The famous "Face" is one of those eroding mesas.

[Image: physmol.gif]

Two scientific stories unfold here. One story concerns the difference in elevation between the highlands and lowlands, amounting to 1 kilometer (half a mile) in most places. What caused this sharp dichotomy in the crust? Despite years of debate, no one knows for sure.

The other story - spurred by data from the Mars Global Surveyor and Mars Odyssey missions - centers on the presence of water (or ice) in the ground, revealed by spacecraft instruments. Scientists want to know how the water got there and what role it has played in shaping the landscape. Frozen-ground features seen in Earth's polar regions can be found here and elsewhere on Mars, hinting that similar processes are at work.

And like Earth, Mars also undergoes ice ages. These climatic changes unroll over thousands of years, driven by slow periodic shifts in the Martian orbit and the tilt of the planet's axis. The result was to cover the ground in middle and even equatorial latitudes with deposits that mingle dust with snow and ice.

The equatorial regions have since dried out to depths of hundreds of meters (yards) or more, but the middle latitudes, including places such as Cydonia, may have water-ice-rich ground only a few meters down. Water's presence has implications for the chances of possible life - and it might even be of direct use to future human explorers.

This Cydonia image combines numerous frames taken at visible wavelengths by the Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS), a camera on NASA's Mars Odyssey orbiter. THEMIS views Mars at 5 visible and 10 infrared wavelengths; its multi-band picture of the Red Planet gives scientists clues about the surface materials, and its wide-field yet sharp views put geological features into context.

Old and New

These two craters look markedly different and, between them, both offer hints at changes in the Martian climate. The crater at top is noticeably larger, 9 km (5.6 mi) wide, compared to the lower crater's 5.2 km (3.2 mi). And depth measurements find the lower crater is about 1,000 meters (3,300 feet) deep, some three times deeper than the larger crater.

The size of a crater depends on impact velocity, but even more on the size of the meteorite. And as a general rule of thumb, bigger meteorites tend to meet their fates earlier in solar system history rather than later. But these two craters come close enough in size to make the general rule risky to apply here.

Instead, what really sets these two craters apart is how fresh they appear - or how old, in the case of the larger one. The smaller crater is a smooth-sided bowl with a sharp rim and a relatively deep interior. The larger crater is much shallower, its flat interior looks like smooth debris fills it almost completely, and the rim's edge appears soft and rounded.

The small crater might have formed last week or last century, while the larger one has a much greater age. (By how many years is a question no geologist can answer as yet.)

Between these two craters, and throughout their vicinity, the ground shows meandering, braided patterns that suggest flow. This ground is some of the mantling material that scientists suspect contains ice at shallow depths. The debris covers most of the surface - and it left deposits over the big crater's interior.

But not the smaller crater's: no soft mantle lies across it. Whenever this crater formed, the latest episode of Martian climate change has left no marks on it. The most reasonable explanation is that the crater formed since Mars' last ice age, which ended very approximately 400,000 years ago.

Trickling Away

Signs of flow are prominent across many parts of Cydonia, including these narrow channels, which lie on the northern side of a relatively fresh crater. The crater is 8.6 km (5.3 mi) wide and about 900 meters (3,000 feet) deep.

From its appearance, the crater is not quite as fresh as the smaller crater mentioned in the previous section - but it is far from being as debris-filled as larger one. Thus it is likely closer in age to the smaller one.

Gullies furrow the upper parts of the crater's interior, showing where slides of debris have widened the rim a little and kept it looking sharp-edged. These slides may have been helped along by flows of groundwater or melting snow coming out of the rock just below the rim level.

The ground lying north of the crater is not as flat as it appears. In fact, from the crater rim the terrain rises some 60 meters (200 feet) to reach a broad ridge about halfway up the image. This ridge is imperceptible in the photo, but revealed by laser altimeter measurements. This means that much of the flow we see here went downhill toward the crater.

When an ice-rich mantle of material starts to melt, the water escapes, either into the air by flowing downhill. As this happens, scientists conclude, the mantle will collapse as the supporting ice goes away. The result will be a smooth landscape cut by thin channels. If all the ice were removed, the mantle would collapse totally, and much of it might blow away as dust.

Water In the Basement

The scientific evidence for water underlying the surface of Cydonia comes from the neutron and gamma-ray spectrometers on the Mars Odyssey spacecraft. These found strong evidence of hydrogen in the ground throughout this entire part of Mars. As a gas, hydrogen would soon leak away, but in the form of water-ice it could linger.

Second, many landscape features, such as the rounded ring of ejected debris around this crater, suggest water-saturated ground. Geologists think this kind of ejecta apron, called a pedestal crater, forms where the ejected debris from the meteorite impact covers ice-rich ground with a rocky layer that is relatively durable.

As climate change erodes the ice-rich ground, the portion that lies under the ejecta remains intact. Over time, the crater ends up on its pedestal because the surrounding surface has lowered. An identical ring appears in Utopia and other locations where the evidence for ground ice is just as strong.

Elsewhere in Cydonia and in geographically similar Deuteronilus Mensae, debris at the foot of isolated mesas appears to have flowed down from them. Even the flat ground between mesas shows flow-features in many places.

A Warm Face

Among the scattered mesas in Cydonia is a famous one whose appearance earned it the nickname "The Face." Despite fanciful theories, the mesa is simply a hill about 300 m (1,000 feet) high. Other mesas nearby have generally similar shapes.

High-resolution images of The Face, however, reveal its northern and eastern sides have a smooth covering material. Where it occurs on slopes, scientists have dubbed it "pasted-on terrain" because that's just what it looks like. The material likely has the same origin as the mantles of dust-covered snow and ice seen elsewhere.

The pasted-on material lies on the sides of The Face that point away from the greatest solar heating, much like the snow that survives into summer lies on the poleward-facing slopes of mountains on Earth. Thus the material may still contain water (as snow or ice) just below the surface. On the warmer sides of this and other mesas, however, the material has eroded away.

The flat ground around the mesas shows several small impact craters. There are also a number of features that look like cones with dimples in the top. (See at the foot of the other mesa in the picture.) These might be what geologists call "rootless cones" - basically, places where volcanic heat met subsurface water and the resulting steam blasted through the surface, creating a cone.

Yet other signs of volcanism - obvious lava flows, for example - are rare in Cydonia, so scientists think a more likely explanation is a pingo. Pingoes are found commonly on Earth in polar regions. Essentially, a pingo is a gigantic frost heave or a kind of ice-blister. This would fit in with the spacecraft observations of a water-rich ground

http://themis.asu.edu/features/cydonia

Glass is Just  refined Sand Melted and vitrified into malable shapes like windows,lenses or building bricks.
Water is Power.
There is Water just below the surface of Cydonia quite like what the phoenix uncovered nearer the pole.
Reach down and Grasp it and return it to the surface.
A sure grip and a Firm Foothold since the Mainstream acknowledges its presence there.
WaterPower.

As I posted elsewhere...they still don't really know what Water really is...

While we Nasa Mantra "follow the water"...do we even know what we are looking for?

[Image: cydonia-TN1]

I presented the Same evidence as ASU did well before their conclusions were public here in this long running thread @ A-Net.
http://communities.anomalies.net/forum/ ... ll/fpart/1

While we follow the water...do we truly even know what we/they are looking for?

More Evidence for a Revolutionary Theory of Water


http://www.physorg.com/news134058290.html

The traditional picture of how liquid water behaves on a molecular level is wrong, according to new experimental evidence collected by a collaboration of researchers from the Department of Energy's Stanford Linear Accelerator Center (SLAC) in California, RIKEN SPring-8 synchrotron and Hiroshima University in Japan and Stockholm University in Sweden.
Quote:The team, involving SLAC scientist Anders Nilsson, used advanced X-ray spectroscopy techniques to create a more detailed picture of water's molecular behavior. Published as the cover story in the June 30 edition of the journal Chemical Physics Letters, the findings could soon help overturn the established orthodoxy surrounding the substance most essential to life.

Water, by any measure, is strange stuff. It behaves unlike any other liquid. It has a tremendous capacity for carrying heat?which is why the Gulf Stream keeps Europe warm. Water's solid phase ?ice? is less dense than the liquid, which is why ice floats; life on Earth could never have formed if oceans and lakes froze from the bottom up. Water also has unusually strong surface tension?a property essential for the capillary action at work in the roots of plants and within our cells. These strange properties are what make water such an essential substance to the existence of life.

But despite its prevalence and importance, liquid water is not well understood, and its molecular structure has been the subject of intense debate for decades. Ice, whose structure was long ago well established, forms a tight "tetrahedral" lattice of molecules each binding to four others. The prevailing model of liquid water holds that as ice melts, the molecules loosen their grip but remain generally arranged in the same tetrahedral groups.

In the recent study, Nilsson and colleagues probed the structure of liquid water using X-ray Emission Spectroscopy and X-ray Absorption Spectroscopy. These techniques use powerful X-rays, generated by a synchrotron light source, to excite electrons within a water molecule's single oxygen atom. Tuning the X-rays to a specific range of energies can reveal with tremendous precision the location and arrangement of the water molecules. In this way Nilsson's team found that water is indeed made up of tetrahedral groups, but clear evidence also emerged for the dominance of a second, less defined structure in the mix.

Cont'd...
http://www.physorg.com/news134058290.html
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#21
Great work EA which is why I think the MSL should go to Cydonia next...you n I KNOW they won't send ANY 'robot' to Cydonia likely in our lifetime with the current attitude from NASA/JPL and the rock hounds. Uhoh of what the data would show close up at such a high metropolitan site.

Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
Reply
#22
A planted kernal can produce cobs of corn,No?
We have solid evidence that Mars can sustain humans.

It is unambiguous evidence,of easy stride colony manufacture.

The Gist is WE will RULE CYDONIA's excavations and Archeo-seti digs...
Beacause the Mainstream abandoned Cydonia...us others will make this colony realise itself over the interveneing decade.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#23
Cydonia was Officially rejected by the Mainstream.
This is were We arrest Cydonia for ourselves.

Annex Cydonia for the future benevolence of Earth.
On that note of Rejection from the Mainstream...




I hearby ANNEX 100 meters to aside of the Cydo-Axis
CYDONIA.

A right of Way that will never be impeded by Humans from Earth.
For The Benefit of all peoples of The Earth.


That,is an official claim concurrent and commensurate with all that is described as The Cydo-Axis and all counter-claims will be viewed as an act of War.
The Square Complex shall contain the Capitol City.
The D&M pyramid will be a place where souls and science meet,
The Face shall retain the 'Beacon" status and likely be further modified as we terraform Mars.

It is now time that we step forward and become the curators of the museum before Nasa gets boots on the ground.

Quote:This ain't yer daddies Cydonia anymore.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#24
If It is a Given as we measure from earth Being one unit or 1AU From Sol.
And Mars as ~1.5AU.

It seems  Hmm2
Protest
No Fair!
 
We need gizmos like this Fresnal Card!
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#25
All Kewl vids...but...we aren't ON Cydonia's Plain to use them Worship and imagine differently every night pushing my 'thoughts' intothe Universe to allow us to accomplish this while still alive.

Bob... <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/reefer.gif" alt=":uni:" title="reefer" />
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
Reply
#26
Quote:How to Mine Martian Water
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... -mars.html

By Jeremy Hsu
Staff Writer
posted: 20 August 2008
06:55 am ET


The confirmation of Martian water ice by the Phoenix Mars Lander may hint at the planet's potential for supporting life — or at least human life.

NASA scientists have quietly developed technologies such as microwave beams for future explorers to extract water from the moon or Mars, even as the Phoenix team focuses on finding out more about the Martian climate and history of water.
http://www.space.com/businesstechnology ... 50511.html

"If there is an outpost, there's a need for water, and we don't want to bring water from Earth," said Edwin Ethridge, a materials scientist at NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Ala. 

Water could provide more than just an extraterrestrial drink: the right equipment could break down water for oxygen and even fuel for a human mission. That could lighten the load and cost of any future mission heading for the moon or Mars.

Mining with microwaves

[Image: 080820-tw-ice-miner-02.jpg]

Ethridge spends most of his time working on the Ares rockets slated to return NASA astronauts to the moon. So perhaps it's no surprise that he devotes his spare moments to tinkering with a device that can beam microwaves down to help extract underground water ice.

"One of the chief advantages of microwaves is that it will penetrate the soil, and so would greatly minimize if not eliminate requirement to dig," Ethridge told SPACE.com.

Eliminating the need to dig would also reduce the chance for dust to cause problems with astronauts and their equipment. Microwaves could also work better on the moon given its near-vacuum environment and super-insulating lunar dust.

Ethridge worked with colleague Bill Kaukler, also at NASA Marshall, to run demonstration tests on simulated lunar permafrost. They found that they could remove 98 percent of water ice through sublimation, or converting the frozen water directly into a gas, and could also capture 99 percent of the extracted water.

Shaken, not stirred  Cheers

Recent missions have shown that any water found on the moon or Mars will likely remain locked away in ice, whether on the surface or underground. Adjusting the frequency of microwaves can allow them to penetrate deeper to reach any such frozen reservoirs.

The use of water-mining technology during the planned moon missions could serve as a "test bed for Mars and any other extraterrestrial body that has water," Ethridge noted.

No one has uncovered solid evidence of water ice on the moon yet, but lunar orbiters have detected concentrations of hydrogen at the poles that strongly suggest the presence of untapped ice. A study earlier this year also confirmed the presence of water inside ancient moon samples brought back by Apollo astronauts.

"At the poles, there are craters that have been permanently shadowed for billions of years," Ethridge said. Many lunar scientists suspect that water ice survives in those permanently shadowed regions away from sunlight.

No one has to wonder that about Mars, where the Phoenix Mars Lander directly detected water ice after scraping away at the polar surface. Mars orbiters have also detected concentrations of hydrogen on the red planet, all the way from the poles to near the equator.

"It absolutely amazed me about Mars that they just had to scratch the surface and found water ice that is stable," Ethridge said.

Drink your (Mars) milkshake?

There could be an ocean of frozen water under Phoenix, but tapping it would still require energy resources that a Mars mission might not have.

"As far as humans go, if you want to form a colony on Mars or establish a station, you'd want to dig a well and pump liquid up from the surface," said Peter Smith, the principal investigator leading the Phoenix Mars Lander mission at the University of Arizona in Tucson.

Liquid water would much more easily enable any human mission, but remains an elusive and perhaps unlikely find. Phoenix still needs to run further tests on its water ice sample.

"We're trying to figure out its past," Smith noted. "Our job is to figure out if this ice has melted and gone through a liquid phase."

Squeezing out the drops

Meanwhile, Ethridge continues to plow ahead with his study to make the microwave extraction process more efficient. He and Kaukler hope to shrink the energy requirements for their current 1 kilowatt system.

"One of the early landers on the moon probably won't have that power," Ethridge pointed out. "We're working on a smaller power type demonstration."

Most scientists agree that the current Martian climate remains too cold for water to exist in liquid form. Still, some hold out the chance for flowing water somewhere underground, perhaps in the form of hot springs.

"I think that's the big discovery yet to be made that's going to enable humans to go to Mars and sink a well," Smith said.

Video: Digging on Mars
http://www.space.com/php/video/player.p ... conference

[Image: fresnel-lenstissue.small.jpg]

FRESNEL LENSES !!!

[Image: fresnel-burntissue.small.jpg]

Free solar boosting Low-Tech / High output  focused light energy beams.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#27
Interesting thread.

<img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/smoke.gif" alt="Smoke" title="smoke" />
Never invite a Yoda to a frog leg dinner.
Go ahead invite Yoda to a Frog leg dinner
Reply
#28
Quote:Adaptation of Stereolithography to the In-Situ Construction of Lunar Basalt Structures

Introduction

A few key considerations must be taken into account when considering the initiation of a lunar colony.  First off, local construction materials must take precedence over imported materials, and for the obvious economic reason.  With earth to moon shipping costs running between $10,000 and $100,000 per pound, something as simple as a single 50 pound bag of concrete (and it requisite 20 to 30 pounds of water to activate it) would set a colonist back between $700,000 and $8,000,000.  At these prices any materials available locally on the moon, even if the only materials available were green cheese and saltines, would be infinitely more economically attractive than earth-sourced materials.  Secondly, heavy construction equipment will suffer the same fate for the same reason.  Thirdly, replacing heavy construction equipment with heavy human labor on the lunar surface, inside of spacesuits, is also not preferred -- robots don't die when they spring an air leak (at least not permanently).  So the ideal construction practice would use local resources exclusively, and use light-weight robotic machinery to do the majority of the work.

This is where Stereolithographic, or layered manufacturing principles come into play.  Stereolithography is a process which creates a physical three dimensional copy of an object by combining a stack of thin layers of material: each layer a cross sectional profile of the object at a specific depth.  It is often used in modern industry for the rapid prototyping of 3D mechanical objects and is even used in modern medicine for the creation of replacement bone structures for patients.  This process is extremely versatile as objects can be generated directly from computer drawings and without the need of machining or casting molds.

This paper is a study of the application of the stereolythographic process in the construction of dwellings on the lunar surface using a mobile solar furnace, a few robots, and the ever present lunar basalt dust as the construction medium.

[Image: mdmltwip01.jpg]

  The paper might alternately be titled "Making my Multi-mini-layered Moon Mansion with a Magnifying Glass by Melting Mare Moondust: how I did it."

[Image: mdmltwip02.jpg]


Current Status
  I have recently acquired a much larger fresnel lens (550mm x 650mm) from AWI Industries of Corona, California.  Eric Yim and company are a joy to work with.  The choice of using a lense over a mirror, is based on time and work constraints, not technical merit.
Fresnel lenses are readily available and relatively inexpensive (the cost of the lens was in the $100 to $200 price range), and beat the alternative of creating or buying a custom, large area, concave mirror.  This new lense allows much larger areas of lunar simulant to stay molten at any one time, but I am still unhappy with the resulting product, which is quite brittle and weak -- not so different from the slag it closely resembles.

Industrial products built from cast basalt are quite robust, but are processed quite differently than what I am attempting.  In the manufacture of those products, not only is the basalt product melted and cast, but an annealing process cools the product slowly over about 6 hours.  NASA studies of sintering lunar regolith have also indicated that a slow cooling process is essential to avoid cracks in the final product, and that compaction of the regolith also improves strength


[Image: mdmelt.jpg]

http://www.freeluna.com/mdmfg.htm

Melting ice into water.
Highly improved Solar Cell output.
Regolith Alteration into structural components.
Dust Control---YES!!! dust control...That Evil insidious Poof-Dust Can  be Flash Melted around Bases.
Melt the  Ground of The Work Area  in Major Traffic/Living/Science outposts and create a safer environment corrosive dust-free.
Heat of Sol the Sun...freely available,No Governmental strings attached.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#29
Clays Shed Light on Water

Quote:Clays Shed Light on Water, Suggest Past Mars Microbes

By Andrea Thompson, Senior Writer

posted: 07 August 2008 02:00 pm ET


Clay deposits found in one of the oldest riverbed-like channels on Mars shows some unusual signatures that may shed light on the history of water — and possibly life — on the red planet.


Observations made by an instrument onboard NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO), currently circling the planet, already have shown substantial clay deposits that formed about 4 billion years ago in two regions of Mars, Mawrth Vallis and Nili Fossae, that indicate that water was more widespread in those areas than was initially thought. Those findings were detailed in the July 17 issue of the journal Nature.


Now, a new study, detailed in the Aug. 8 issue of the journal Science, took a closer look at the clays in the Mawrth Vallis region and found that they lie in a uniform sequence of layers that indicates that the chemistry of water there changed over time.


""We see different clays, but the way we see them there, it's kind of like ... a layer cake, where we, every time we, every place we get a glimpse of what's there, it's the same order," said study leader Janice Bishop of the SETI Institute in Mountain View, Calif.


"There was a varied chemistry, and it was pervasive, because everywhere we look we see this same trend," she added.


MRO's Compact Reconnaissance Imaging Spectrometer for Mars (CRISM) detected the sequence, which features iron and magnesium smectites (clays rich in those particular minerals) in the lowest layer, overlain by a layer enriched in reduced iron (making it distinct from the iron in the first layer. Next is a layer of silica opal with a layer of aluminum-rich clays on top.


Bishop says that the iron and magnesium smectites were likely formed as the water in a huge lake transformed underlying basaltic ash or rock (formed by volcanism).


"They're pretty common, and we see those in a lot of areas on Mars," Bishop told SPACE.com. "That's what happened first and that was probably pervasive; there was probably a lot of water for a long time and that happened in the whole area."


The aluminum-rich top layer probably formed during a subsequent watery period where some type of acid-leaching removed the iron and magnesium, and aluminum was all that was left, Bishop explained.


But the really interesting middle layer, the one with the reduced iron, formed after the iron and magnesium-rich layer when "something kind of weird happened," Bishop said.


Forming deposits of reduced, or ferrous, iron "usually ... takes microorganisms," she said. For instance, microbes on Earth can transform iron from its ferric to its ferrous state.


But the finding doesn't prove that microbes once existed on Mars, as other processes could account for the iron transformation, Bishop cautioned. Organic carbon, perhaps from an impacting comet, could have reduced the iron or some change in water chemistry could also have done the job. Alternatively, the iron could have been deposited and dried too quickly to oxidize. But which of those processes is correct is anybody's guess at this point.


"Right now we have more questions than answers," Bishop said.


But as more CRISM images are analyzed and future robotic missions are sent to Mars, more information might be gleaned on this unique geology which could help scientists "build a better story," as Bishop put it.

http://www.livescience.com/space/080807 ... ay-02.html

That aluminum is going to come in handy some day. :uni:
Quote:I'm gonna shed you some light
-monster magnet

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByCXe3rr ... re=related

At least these clays will undo the association of  Big-foot HOAX with Clayton county ,Ga.

Whenever clayton is spoken in a lot of circles...fraud will immediately come to mind...tsk. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/koolaid.gif" alt="Koolaid" title="koolaid" />
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#30
That is a pretty good story on the phyllosilicate clays in layers,
and their speculations about the "middle layer"
being reduced in iron by organisms.

the original article appeared in Nature mag as indicated by the text,
and there were a couple of good images there.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/0 ... water.html
3D image of a trough in the Nili Fossae region of Mars, which had expansive outcrops of phyllosilicates
[Image: 080716-Nili-Fossae-02.jpg]
.


The delta in Jezero crater,
a past lake on Mars.
Ancient rivers ferried clay-like minerals (shown in green) into the lake,
forming the delta.
The clays then were trapped by rocks (purple).
Credit: NASA/JPL/JHUAPL/MSSS/Brown University
[Image: 080716-Jezero-clays-02.jpg]
Reply
#31
[quote author="EA"]If It is a Given as we measure from earth Being one unit or 1AU From Sol.
And Mars as ~1.5AU.

It seems Naughty

An object twice the distance from a light source receives 1/4 the light. (for the same surface area)

Or 1/ 2 squared or 1/ 2 e 2 or 1 / 2*2.

If the earth is ~1 AU from the sun and Mars is ~1.5 AU from the sun, an equal area on Mars as on Earth would recive 1/ 1.5 squared units of light (lumens, foot candles, etc...)

1/ 1.5 squared = 1/ 2.25 = .44444, or slightly less than half the amount of light.

But, as you say, with the thinner atmosphere (and therefore les scattering) and reduced or no magnetosphere on Mars, the intensity of the sunlight hitting the same surface area on Mars would be greater than if Mars had a thicker atmosphere and a greater magnetosphere.

And with the reduced gravity on Mars, it would not be a big problem to suspend larger mirrors or larger fresnel lenses to concentrate the sunlight into solar blast furnaces...


Otherwise I love your idea. Melt that sand and ice! Cheers

Gregort Cheers <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cheers.gif" alt="Cheers" title="cheers" />
Reply
#32
http://soil.gsfc.nasa.gov/elec/soilelec.htm
Soils As Electrical Systems


http://pasadena.wr.usgs.gov/office/hough/asheville.html
The Hot Springs Account


good article on acoustic cavitation
http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/suslick/pdf/philtrans99.pdf
Reply
#33
Thank you for correcting my optics,Gregort!
Standing corrected I still stand behind my basic UP-SCALED assumptions.

That you can scale - UP the FRESNELS to The most optimum output on Mars.
(This would also be based around the idea of making a 'Dedicated' Heat-ray type of Fresnel and not merely a 'Magnified Projection device' to read BASIC print,etc. clearly.  Koolaid -Fresnel  optically optimised for Mars Lenses.
and Water-ice,Co2-ice,Sand,Basaltic Rocks,Serpentine,Hematitite,iron,magnesium,aluminum...blah,blah,raw materials.

Then Let's take that Sunlight and Fresnels and NOT melt sand for building blocks...instead:


Check This out Gregort and Via. Bump  Bump MARS Sized!!!***-Clay
It will contain 14 cobalt ferrite rings, each about one foot in diameter and turning at one revolution per minute. An 88-square meter solar furnace will blast sunlight into the unit, heating the rings to about 2,600 degrees Fahrenheit. At that temperature, cobalt ferrite releases oxygen. When the rings cool to about 2,000 degrees, they're exposed to CO2.

Since the cobalt ferrite is now missing oxygen, it snatches some from the CO2, leaving behind just carbon monoxide -- a building block for making hydrocarbons -- that can then be used to make methanol or gasoline. And with the cobalt ferrite restored to its original state, the device is ready for another cycle.

Fuels like methanol and gasoline are combinations of hydrogen and carbon that are relatively easy to synthesize, Stechel said. Methanol is the easiest, and that's where they will start, but gasoline could also be made.

However, creating a powerful and efficient solar power system to get the cobalt ferrite hot enough remains a major hurdle in implementing the technology on a large scale, said Aldo Steinfeld, head of the Solar Technology Laboratory at the Paul Scherrer Institut in Switzerland, in an e-mail.

He and Stechel said the technology could be 15 to 20 years from viability on an industrial scale.

The Sandia team originally developed the CR5 to generate hydrogen for use in fuel cells. If the device's rings are exposed to steam instead of carbon dioxide, they generate hydrogen. But the scientists switched to carbon monoxide, so the fuels they produce would be compatible with existing infrastructure.

Stechel said the Sandia team envisions a day when coal-fired power plants might have large numbers of CR5s, each reclaiming 45 pounds of carbon dioxide using reclamation technology currently under development and producing enough carbon monoxide to make 2.5 gallons of fuel. The Sunlight to Petrol process also raises the possibility that liquid hydrocarbon fuels might one day be renewable – provided CO2 reclamation reaches a point where the greenhouse gas can be snatched directly from the air. Such a process is being explored by Global Research Technologies and Klaus Lakner of Columbia University, among others.

[/quote]


Now read this Table from Wikipedia.

Quote:
Atmosphere of Mars
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Carbon dioxide 95.32%

Koolaid  Koolaid  Koolaid
http://www.wired.com/science/discoverie ... 008/01/S2P

Nitrogen 2.7%
Argon 1.6%
Oxygen 0.13%
Carbon monoxide 0.07%
Water vapor 0.03%
Nitric oxide 0.013%
Neon 2.5 ppm
Krypton 300 ppb
Formaldehyde 130 ppb [1]
Xenon 80 ppb
Ozone 30 ppb
Methane 10.5 ppb

Fuel.
Waiting to be produced in Cydonia right there,in-situ out of the thin air self sufficiency around the Scientific/colony can theoretically be obtained.

But Wait!!!
Not only does the GINSU Slice,Dice,Chop AND Julliene... Lmao  Cow The Sandia team originally developed the CR5 to generate hydrogen for use in fuel cells. If the device's rings are exposed to steam instead of carbon dioxide, they generate hydrogen. But the scientists switched to carbon monoxide, so the fuels they produce would be compatible with existing infrastructure. <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/cow.gif" alt="Cow" title="cow" />

Stechel said the Sandia team envisions a day when coal-fired power plants might have large numbers of CR5s, each reclaiming 45 pounds of carbon dioxide using reclamation technology currently under development and producing enough carbon monoxide to make 2.5 gallons of fuel. The Sunlight to Petrol process also raises the possibility that liquid hydrocarbon fuels might one day be renewable – provided CO2 reclamation reaches a point where the greenhouse gas can be snatched directly from the air. Such a process is being explored by Global Research Technologies and Klaus Lakner of Columbia University, among others.

[/quote]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 2 Guest(s)