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Search for "Planet X" officially comes up empty (Oh yeah?)
(05-17-2018, 03:10 AM)Vianova Wrote: Some researchers, however, 
caution that Planet Nine may not be the only explanation for 2015 BP519’s strange orbit.

Michele Bannister   Hi
a planetary Sheep  astronomer from Queen’s University Belfast, in Ireland, 
{v-note -- she is a Canadian from Vancouver BC that writes pretty poetry}
who was not involved in the study, 
kind of involved on how itz revolved and evolved then eventually resolved.-EA
told Newsweek that while the latest findings were “a great discovery,” 
other scenarios could account for its tilt 
kind of involved on how itz revolved and evolved then eventually resolved. >>>

We would like to thank Andrew Vanderburg,

Ellen Price, Linn Eriksson, Melaine Saillenfest and Mike
Brown for many useful conversations. We would like
to thank Michele Bannister for useful discussions and
methods advice.
We would like to thank Konstantin
Batygin for his careful review of the manuscript and
suggestions that greatly improved this work. We thank
Marty Kandes and Mats Rynge for help running simulations
on Open Science Grid's high-throughput computing
resources (operated through XSEDE). J.C.B, S.J.H,
and L.M. are supported by the NSF Graduate Research
Fellowship Grant No. DGE 1256260.

[Image: avatar_345.jpg?dateline=1453569234] Sheep   Horsepoop

Planet Nein!-Stubeedoo
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Collective gravity, not Planet Nine, may explain the orbits of 'detached objects'
June 4, 2018, University of Colorado at Boulder

[Image: solarsystem.jpg]
Credit: CC0 Public Domain
Bumper car-like interactions at the edges of our solar system—and not a mysterious ninth planet—may explain the dynamics of strange bodies called "detached objects," according to a new study.

CU Boulder Assistant Professor Ann-Marie Madigan and a team of researchers have offered up a new theory for the existence of planetary oddities like Sedna. This minor planet orbits Earth's sun at a distance of 8 billion miles but appears separated from the rest of the solar system.

One theory for its unusual dynamics is that an as-of-yet-unseen ninth planet beyond Neptune may have disturbed the orbits of Sedna and other detached objects. But Madigan and her colleagues calculated that the orbits of Sedna and its ilk may result from these bodies jostling against each other and space debris in the outer solar system.

"There are so many of these bodies out there. What does their collective gravity do?" said Madigan of the Department of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences (APS) and JILA. "We can solve a lot of these problems by just taking into account that question."

The researchers will present their findings on June 4 at a press briefing at the 232nd meeting of the American Astronomical Society, which runs from June 3-7 in Denver.

Detached objects like Sedna get their name because they complete humongous, circular orbits that bring them nowhere close to big planets like Jupiter or Neptune. How they got to the outer solar system on their own is an ongoing mystery.

Using computer simulations, Madigan's team came up with one possible answer. Jacob Fleisig, an undergraduate studying astrophysics at CU Boulder, calculated that these icy objects orbit the sun like the hands of a clock. The orbits of smaller objects, such as asteroids, however, move faster than the larger ones, such as Sedna.

"You see a pileup of the orbits of smaller objects to one side of the sun," said Fleisig, who is the lead author of the new research. "These orbits crash into the bigger body, and what happens is those interactions will change its orbit from an oval shape to a more circular shape."

In other words, Sedna's orbit goes from normal to detached entirely because of those small-scale interactions. The team's observations also fall in line with research from 2012, which observed that the bigger a detached object gets, the farther away its orbit becomes from the sun. Alexander Zderic, a graduate student in APS at CU Boulder, also co-authored the new research.

The findings may also provide clues around another phenomenon: the extinction of the dinosaurs. As space debris interacts in the outer solar system, the orbits of these objects tighten and widen in a repeating cycle. This cycle could wind up shooting comets toward the inner solar system—including in the direction of Earth—on a predictable timescale.

"While we're not able to say that this pattern killed the dinosaurs," Fleisig said, "it's tantalizing."

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: How we discovered 840 minor planets beyond Neptune – and what they can tell us

Provided by: University of Colorado at Boulder

Read more at:
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...

Quote:Collective gravity, not Planet Nine, may explain the orbits of 'detached objects'  Doh

"There are so many of these bodies out there

What does their collective gravity do?"  Doh

said Madigan of the Department of Astrophysical and Planetary Sciences (APS) and JILA.

They want you to think small, 
all "bodies" far less than Sedna in size,
to MU69 style space boogers and smaller dinky asteroids.

This is what they don't want you to think.
I will rewrite their quote:

Quote:"There are so many of these dwarf planets,
oversize planetary bodies,
and smaller asteroid like bodies out there. 

What does their collective gravity do?" 

Their model in the first quote,
actually goes back to the original Planet X determinations,
similarly made by Dr. P. in the now ancient IRAS study he did on Planet X.
That would be Conley Powell.

Opinions somewhat amalgamated together in this recent blog.
Lots more at the link.
Why Can’t We Find Planet Nine?

Quote:But no telescope has yet been able to spot it.
Out there, space gets dark alarmingly fast. 
Planets twice as far away look 16 times dimmer Whip
the intensity of the sunlight weakens by a factor of four going out, 
and then four times again coming back. 

At an orbital distance of 600 astronomical units (1 AU is the distance between Earth and the sun), 
Planet Nine would be 160,000 times dimmer than Neptune is at 30 AU. 

At 1,000 AU, it would appear more than 1 million times weaker. 
“There’s really a brick wall, basically, at 1,000 AU,” 
said Kevin Luhman, an astronomer at Pennsylvania State University.

Even if the astronomers do soon cover the search area, 
cosmically bad  Naughty luck could keep the planet hidden. 

Perhaps it’s lost in the light pollution of the Milky Way, or hiding in the glare of a bright star. 

“I lose sleep at night when I think about that possibility,” 
Brown said. 
Worse, it could be in the part of its orbit that takes it beyond that 1,000-AU wall. 
Waiting for it to swing back around would take thousands of years.

Holder is waiting for the Next Generation CMB Experiment, 
which his preliminary calculations estimate could pick up a planet as small as Earth at 1,000 AU. 
“There would be nowhere for Planet Nine to hide once this thing was turned on,” he said.
That moment remains the better part of a decade away. 

After more than a decade of tracking the Cassini spacecraft’s path through the Saturnian system, 
some researchers think the ringed planet’s orbit differs from what their models predict. 

“There’s a pattern,” said Matthew Holman, 
an astrophysicist at the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. 
He compared a model of Saturn’s orbit to Cassini data and found a hint of something unknown. 
“If you put a planet in” the outer solar system, he said, 
“the fit would be better.”

(07-04-2018, 02:36 AM)Vianova Wrote: Collective Gravity Doh

Quote:“the fit would be better.”    Banana_hump  Sheep  Banana_hump  
All coalesced space-balls in...
somewhat amalgamated together

Collective Depravity.
Emily and Michelle confer: [Image: dn28113-1_800.jpg]
...[Image: tumblr_ny93idiCKw1t5hta1o1_400.jpg] "planet 9 sux"-  pi-eyed plural plutonic pupils
What a cute couple of space-chix.
Looking forward to their rented room rendevous with mu69,lol!

I would Sputnix Planum! LilD
Collective Gravity Pennywise
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...

A single giant impact Whip supposedly is what set Uranus with it's unique rotation.
{poles at the equator and vice versa}

Two to three times Earth size impactor ...
" —most likely a young proto-planet made of rock and ice—
during the formation of the solar system about 4 billion years ago. "

I don't think so.
"supercomputer simulations" ... only prove projected simulations.

The glaring disclaimer near the bottom of the article:

Quote:There has been a question mark over how Uranus Nonono 
managed to retain its atmosphere Whip
when a violent collision might have been expected to send it hurtling into space.

Uranus IMPACT VIDEO at above link {will not C & P}
"glancing blow impact"

The team used a powerful supercomputer to run over 50 different simulations,
involving a proto-Uranus being struck by a series of three impactors,
that were one, two, and three times the mass of the Earth, respectively.

The high-resolution simulations revealed that Uranus was likely struck by a young protoplanet 
that was at least twice the mass of the Earth, 
and comprised largely of rock and ice, 
similar in some respects to the rocky core of the gas giant itself.

The force of this collision would have been sufficient  to knock the planet onto its side. 

{would have been sufficient  =  lame and feeble}

The results of the simulations also suggest that if the impactor,
had struck Uranus with a glancing blow Slap2
{see video at first link}
the gas giant would have been able to hold onto the majority of its atmosphere – 
in excess of 90 percent in some scenarios – 
rather than having it blown off into space.

The study could also help solve a long-standing mystery regarding the extremely low temperature, 
-216 °C (-357 °F), of Uranus' atmosphere. 
It is possible that debris from the impactor could have formed a thin shell  Tp
near the planet's ice layer, 
which would have the effect of preventing heat from the planet's core from transferring to the upper atmosphere.

The computer collisions also showed that the impact between a youthful Uranus 
and a protoplanet could have thrown significant quantities of rock and ice into orbit, 
which would have settled around the tilted plane. 
From this debris, the gas giant's moons could have coalesced, 
or the influence of the material could have altered the orbit of existing moons, 
bringing them Gangup  into line.

Debris from the impact could also explain the unusual nature of Uranus' off-axis magnetic field, 
which, according to the study, 
could be distorted by unevenly distributed lumps of molten ice and lumps of rock 
deposited inside the planet during the chaotic rendezvous.

moons Uranus
[Image: les_satellites_et_anneaux_d_Uranus.jpg]

sorry, I don't believe their "glancing blow" mumbo jumbo is accumulated from enough clear data on Uranus,
for their -- "super computer simulations" -- to have that degree of confidence they project.
Lame and feeble.
Like the super con-puter simulations that predicted Pluto to be a "nothing to see here" planet,
that only got a Fly  Hi Bye.

NASA and the astronomy departments at universities rely on too much:
Super Con-puter Stimulations ... Reefer
to generate manufactured news.


These PUBLISH or PERISH is one way to keep your job and look busy make work.

You can write ANY code to bring out ANY answer you want.

I just had rewrite my

Because I am only on a shared server, the 19 small mp4s where slowing down the page.

I simply re-wrote page with each videos and large images as images, click, see or watch and use back button.

Loads VERY quickly now.

So ANYTHING & EVERYTHING can be done with the right coding.

As to whether the end model is PHYSICALLY correct or not, if it gets attention, that's eyeball contact.

Bob... Ninja Alien2
"The Light" - Jefferson Starship-Windows of Heaven Album
I'm an Earthling with a Martian Soul wanting to go Home.   
You have to turn your own lightbulb on. ©stevo25 & rhw007
(07-08-2018, 12:51 AM)rhw007 Wrote: These PUBLISH or PERISH is one way to keep your job and look busy make work.

You can write ANY code to bring out ANY answer you want.

So ANYTHING & EVERYTHING can be done with the right coding.

As to whether the end model is PHYSICALLY correct or not, if it gets attention, that's eyeball contact.

Bob... Ninja Alien2
Arrow  Our simulations suggest that many additional Sednoids at high inclinations still await discovery, perhaps including bodies like the postulated planet X.
Did a rogue star change the makeup of our solar system?

July 20, 2018 by Bob Yirka, report

[Image: 5b51ec209d626.jpg]
Effect of a prograde, parabolic fly-by of a star with a) M=0.5 M , b) M2= 1, M and c) M2= 5 M that is inclined by 60 degree and has a angle of periastron equal zero. The perihelion distance is always chosen in such a way as to lead to a …more
A team of researchers from the Max-Planck Institute and Queen's University has used new information to test a theory that suggests a rogue star passed close enough to our solar system millions of years ago to change its configuration. The group has written a paper describing their ideas and have posted it on the arXiv preprint server.

In recent years, space scientists have begun to suspect that something out of the ordinary happened to our solar system during its early years. Many have begun to wonder why there is not as much material in the outer solar system as logic would suggest. Also, why is Neptune so much more massive than Uranus, which is closer to the sun? And why do so many of the smaller objects in the outer solar system have such oddly shaped orbits? In addressing such questions, many space scientists have begun to wonder if a star might have wandered by during the early years of the solar system—coming just close enough to pull some of the objects in the outer parts of the solar system from their prior positions.

The idea of a rogue star has been debated for some time, but the theory has not been embraced because of the timing—if a star had wandered by, it would have been approximately 10 million years after the birth of our galaxy. But objects in the outer solar system would have still just been forming, making it unlikely that they would have been impacted by a rogue star.

In their paper, the researchers with this new effort suggest that recent research by other teams studying the formation of other solar systems has shown that the outer parts of such systems can be more developed than their inner parts. They suggest that if that were the case for our solar system, then it is possible that the outer parts had matured to the point where they could have been impacted by the gravitational pull of a passing star. To test their theory, they created a simulation of just such a scenario and found that it very closely matched what we are able to see today—a solar system with odd characteristics at its outer edges.

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Simulations suggest Planet Nine may have been a rogue

More information: Outer solar system possibly shaped by a stellar fly-by, arXiv:1807.02960 [astro-ph.GA]

The planets of our solar system formed from a gas-dust disk. However, there are some properties of the solar system that are peculiar in this context. First, the cumulative mass of all objects beyond Neptune (TNOs) is only a fraction of what one would expect. Second, unlike the planets themselves, the TNOs do not orbit on coplanar, circular orbits around the Sun, but move mostly on inclined, eccentric orbits and are distributed in a complex way. This implies that some process restructured the outer solar system after its formation. However, some of TNOs, referred to as Sednoids, move outside the zone of influence of the planets. Thus external forces must have played an important part in the restructuring of the outer solar system. The study presented here shows that a close fly-by of a neighbouring star can simultaneously lead to the observed lower mass density outside 30 AU and excite the TNOs onto eccentric, inclined orbits, including the family of Sednoids. In the past it was estimated that such close fly-bys are rare during the relevant development stage. However, our numerical simulations show that such a scenario is much more likely than previously anticipated. A fly-by also naturally explains the puzzling fact that Neptune has a higher mass than Uranus. Our simulations suggest that many additional Sednoids at high inclinations still await discovery, perhaps including bodies like the postulated planet X.

Journal reference: arXiv

Read more at:
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...

How many times have you seen me clarify this on Mikey Brown's bullshit?

Planet Nine  ?

That is because Pluto is Planet Nine.

Looks like I have good company.

Quote:Planet Nine: 'Insensitive' Term Riles Scientists

Don't call it Planet Nine. 
That nickname for the big world that may lurk unseen in the far outer solar system,
doesn't show the proper amount of respect  Nonono
to the discoverer of the original ninth planet, Pluto, 
a group of researchers argues in a new message to their colleagues.  

"We the undersigned wish to remind our colleagues,
that the IAU planet definition adopted in 2006 
has been controversial and is far from universally accepted. 

Given this, and given the incredible accomplishment of the discovery of Pluto, 
the harbinger of the solar system's third zone — the Kuiper Belt — 
by planetary astronomer Clyde W. Tombaugh in 1930, 
we the undersigned believe,
the use of the term 'Planet 9' for objects beyond Pluto is insensitive Lol to Professor Tombaugh's legacy.

"We further believe the use of this term should be discontinued,
in favor of culturally and taxonomically neutral terms for such planets, 
such as:
Planet X  Reefer

Planet Next   Hmm2


Giant Planet Five. Rofl

Nearly three dozen researchers signed onto this message:

Worship Pluto  is  Planet  Nine

Mikey Brown's Planet Nine 
is the NASA TNO queen Michele Bannister's Wub 
- Let's Have Sex on Planet X -

Like I said much earlier ... with this image ... 
Mikey's Planet Nine nonsense is falling apart,
Mikey {Slappy the Dummy} needs to go into Rehab ... his SSRI's are causing him erectile dys-funk-tion.

TNO queen Michele feeling no pain on the right ...   {TNO -- trans neptunian objects}

[Image: yS3s7ky.jpg]

Don't be -- Slappy the Dummy Whip
like Mikey is ...


let's have sex ... on Planet X   Hi

9 hours ago
Planet Nine may exist, but it might be hiding behind Neptune
By Chris Ciaccia | Fox News

 [Image: 1535987831109.jpg?ve=1&tl=1&text=big-top-image]
Artist illustration of "Planet Nine," a hypothetical world about 10 times more massive than Earth.  (Caltech/R. Hurt)
Evidence for Planet Nine continues to mount, but there may be a good reason why scientists have yet to find it  – it may be hiding.
In October 2017, NASA released a statement saying that Planet Nine may be 20 times further from the Sun than Neptune is, going so far as to say "it is now harder to imagine our solar system without a Planet Nine than with one."
But the reason it may not yet have been found is due to that same distance. At that distance, the equivalent, of 600 astronomical units (1 AU is defined as the distance between the Earth and the Sun, or approximately 93 million miles), it would be 160,000 times dimmer than Neptune is. Kevin Luhman, an astronomer at Pennsylvania State University, told the Washington Post that at 1,000 AU, it's a "brick wall, basically," making any potential planet next to impossible to see using current technology.

However, scientists believe the possibility of another planet, one which may have "10 times the mass of Earth," does indeed exist.
“Every time we take a picture, there is this possibility that Planet Nine exists in the shot,” Surhud More, associate professor in Kavli Institute for the Physics and Mathematics of the Universe at the University of Tokyo, told Advocator.
Slashgear reports that it could take up to 1,000 years before the planet is found.
Michael Brown from the California Institute of Technology has said he thinks “Planet Nine” will eventually be found, but it will take significantly stronger telescopes and planet finding technology than currently exist.
In the Oct. 2017 statement, Caltech planetary astrophysicist Konstantin Batygin, who worked with Brown, said that there "five different lines of observational evidence" that point to the existence of the planet.
The five lines of evidence are:
  • Six known objects in the Kuiper Belt, all of which have elliptical orbits that point in the same direction.
  • The orbits of the objects are all tilted the same way; 30 degrees "downward."
  • Computer simulations that show there are more objects "tilted with respect to the solar plane."
  • Planet Nine could be responsible for the tilt of the planets in our solar system; the plane of the planets orbit is tilted about 6 degrees compared to the Sun's equator
  • Some objects from the Kuiper Belt orbit in the opposite direction from everything else in the solar system.
"No other model can explain the weirdness of these high-inclination orbits," Batygin added. "It turns out that Planet Nine provides a natural avenue for their generation. These things have been twisted out of the solar system plane with help from Planet Nine and then scattered inward by Neptune."
"If you were to remove this explanation and imagine Planet Nine does not exist, then you generate more problems than you solve," Batygin also said. "All of a sudden, you have five different puzzles, and you must come up with five different theories to explain them."
Their work was published in a January 2016 paper that can be read in its entirety here.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Tp  Crater Counting Horsepoop
Quote:This early dynamical instability model has important consequences for the terrestrial planets, particularly regarding  Arrow the origin of large impact craters on the Moon, Mercury and Mars that formed Naughty approximately Doh 4 billion years ago. The impactors that made these craters are less likely to have been flung in from the outer regions of the Solar System. This could imply they were made by small-body leftovers of the terrestrial planet formation process.

Scientists find evidence for early planetary shakeup 
September 10, 2018, Southwest Research Institute

[Image: 43-scientistsfi.jpg]
SwRI scientist studied the binary asteroid Patroclus-Menoetius, shown in this artist’s conception, to determine that a shake-up of the giant planets likely happened early in the solar system’s history, within the first 100 million years. Credit: W.M. Keck Observatory/Lynette Cook

Scientists at Southwest Research Institute studied an unusual pair of asteroids and discovered that their existence points to an early planetary rearrangement in our solar system.

These bodies, called Patroclus and Menoetius, are targets of NASA's upcoming Lucy mission. They are around 70 miles wide and orbit around each other as they collectively circle the Sun. They are the only large binary known in the population of ancient bodies referred to as the Trojan asteroids. The two swarms of Trojans orbit at roughly the same distance from the Sun as Jupiter, one swarm orbiting ahead of, and the other trailing, the gas giant.

"The Trojans were likely captured during a dramatic period of dynamic instability when a skirmish between the solar system's giant planets—Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune—occurred," said SwRI Institute Scientist Dr. David Nesvorny. He is the lead author of the paper, "Evidence for Very Early Migration of the Solar System Planets from the Patroclus-Menoetius Binary Jupiter Trojan," published in Nature Astronomy. This shake-up pushed Uranus and Neptune outwards, where they encountered a large primordial population of small bodies thought to be the source of today's Kuiper Belt objects, which orbit at the edge of the solar system. "Many small bodies of this primordial Kuiper Belt were scattered inwards, and a few of those became trapped as Trojan asteroids."

A key issue with this solar system evolution model, however, has been when it took place. In this paper, scientists demonstrate that the very existence of the Patroclus-Menoetius pair indicates that the dynamic instability among the giant planets must have occurred within the first 100 million years of the solar system formation.

[Image: 2-scientistsfi.gif]
This animated GIF shows how the Patroclus-Menoetius pair orbit around each other as they circle the Sun in tandem with Jupiter. SwRI scientists posit that a giant planet shake-up must have occurred early in solar system history, because the …more
Recent models of small body formation suggest that these types of binaries are leftovers of the very earliest times of our solar system, when pairs of small bodies could form directly from a collapsing cloud of "pebbles."

"Observations of today's Kuiper Belt show that binaries like these were quite common in ancient times," said Dr. William Bottke, director of SwRI's Space Studies Department, who coauthored the paper. "Only a few of them now exist within the orbit of Neptune. The question is how to interpret the survivors."

Had the instability been delayed many hundreds of millions of years, as suggested by some solar system evolution models, collisions within the primordial small-body disk would have disrupted these relatively fragile binaries, leaving none to be captured in the Trojan population. Earlier dynamical instabilities would have left more binaries intact, increasing the likelihood that at least one would have been captured in the Trojan population. The team created new models that show that the existence of the Patroclus-Menoetius binary strongly indicates an earlier instability.


This early dynamical instability model has important consequences for the terrestrial planets, particularly regarding the origin of large impact craters on the Moon, Mercury and Mars that formed approximately 4 billion years ago. The impactors that made these craters are less likely to have been flung in from the outer regions of the Solar System. This could imply they were made by small-body leftovers of the terrestrial planet formation process.

This work underscores the importance of the Trojan asteroids in illuminating the history of our solar system. Much more will be learned about Patroclus-Menoetius binary when NASA's Lucy mission, led by SwRI scientist and paper coauthor Dr. Hal Levison, surveys the pair in 2033, culminating a 12-year mission to tour both Trojan swarms.

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Giant planet ejected from the solar system

More information: David Nesvorný et al, Evidence for very early migration of the Solar System planets from the Patroclus–Menoetius binary Jupiter Trojan, Nature Astronomy (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41550-018-0564-3

Journal reference: Nature Astronomy [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Southwest Research Institute

Read more at:
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Too many space scientists with too many pet theories,
with computer model driven extrapolations on planetary movements,
that occured in some fashion way too long ago, 
on several occasions no doubt.

the distinct content of ...  disclaimer talk ... is clear

Quote:The Trojans,
were likely captured during a dramatic period of ...   "dynamic Scream instability"  Whip
 when a skirmish Swordfight
between the solar system's giant planets—Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune—occurred,"
said SwRI Institute Scientist Dr. David Nesvorny. 

The impactors that made these craters are less likely 

to have been flung in from the outer regions of the Solar System. 
This could imply  Lol  they were made by small-body leftovers of the terrestrial planet formation process.

" dynamic instability "  ... sounds more and more like fresh bullshit

the sublink in the article posted above by EA,
has another pet theory   
of dramatic planetary movements.

It's Jumping Jack Flash Jupiter

Quote:"Colleagues suggested a clever way around this problem," says Nesvorny. 
"They proposed that Jupiter's orbit quickly changed 
when Jupiter scattered off of Uranus or Neptune 
during the dynamical instability in the outer solar system." 

The "jumping-Jupiter" theory  Rofl  as it is known, 
is less harmful to the inner solar system, 
because the orbital coupling between the terrestrial planets and Jupiter is weak if Jupiter jumps.


Nesvorny conducted thousands of computer simulations 
of the early solar system,
to test the jumping-Jupiter theory   Rofl

He found that, as hoped for, Jupiter did in fact jump by scattering from Uranus or Neptune.  
When it jumped, however, Uranus or Neptune was knocked out of the solar system. 
"Something was clearly wrong," he says.

Motivated by these results, 
Nesvorny wondered whether the early solar system could have had five giant planets instead of four. 

By running the simulations with an additional giant planet with mass similar to that of Uranus or Neptune, 
things suddenly fell in place. 
One planet was ejected from the solar system by Jupiter, 
leaving four giant planets behind, 
and Jupiter jumped, 
leaving the terrestrial Sheep  planets undisturbed.

"The possibility that the solar system had more than four giant planets initially,
and ejected some, 
appears to be conceivable    Horsepoop
in view of the recent discovery of a large number of free-floating planets in interstellar space, i
ndicating the planet ejection process could be a common occurrence," 
says Nesvorny.

Read more at:

For all their computer simulations they really kinow nothing.
It is no different than all the computer simulations,
that told space scientists in the Yak Decadal Survey,
that the PLANET PLUTO,
wasn't important enough to place New Horizons spacecratft into a close orbit.

Tp  Crater Counting Horsepoop

Age bias exists even in outer space—in samples collected by Apollo astronauts
September 11, 2018 by Kayla Zacharias, Purdue University

[Image: 583d73c61a5b8.jpg]

Because much of the evidence from Earth's early history has been destroyed by plate tectonics and weathering, astronomers often look to the moon and Mars for clues about our beginnings. But what if some of our information from those planets is biased?

When meteors crash into the moon, the impact creates so much heat that it melts the surface and spits up ejecta. Some of that melt product cools and eventually becomes shiny little orbs known as lunar glass spherules.
Ya-Huei Huang, a graduate student in earth, atmospheric and planetary sciences at Purdue University, looked to these spherules for clues about the rate of meteoroids crashing into the moon.
The samples she studied were collected by Apollo astronauts in the 1960s. Most of the spherules were relatively young, which might indicate that the rate of impacts on the moon has increased in the recent past – but Huang was skeptical of this interpretation, based on deliberations with co-author Nicolle Zellner, a researcher at Albion College.
She created a model for the formation and distribution of lunar glass spherules and found that the impact rate on the moon has likely been constant, but that the small sample of spherules collected was biased toward younger impacts. The findings were published in the journal Geophysical Research Letters.
"The astronauts used a rake to collect samples from the surface of the moon, but if they were able to take samples from a few meters deeper, we might see a more accurate age distribution," said David Minton, a professor of earth, atmospheric and planetary sciences at Purdue who oversaw the research. "If we ever go back to the moon, we could collect samples differently and actually see if the rate of impacts has changed."

Understanding the impact rate is an important part of understanding the history of life on Earth, said Minton. As you may know, impacts have caused mass extinctions (including that of the dinosaurs). Because Earth has destroyed most of the evidence of its ancient history, the moon is an important piece of this puzzle.
[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: Image: Two lunar flashes light up darkened moon
More information: Ya-Huei Huang et al. No Change in the Recent Lunar Impact Flux Required Based on Modeling of Impact Glass Spherule Age Distributions, Geophysical Research Letters (2018). DOI: 10.1029/2018GL077254

Journal reference: Geophysical Research Letters [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: Purdue University

Read more at:
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...

Looking at that picture of the cratered surface of the moon in the last post,
I wondered which planet I would most like to explore, or just visit,
if I only had one choice.
In the ideal conditions of course.
Piece of cake planetary excursion with a high performance spacecraft.

Jupiter and Saturn have the most to offer with all the moons they have accumulated.
It just comes down to Mars or Pluto.
I would be hard pressed to turn down an exclusive low orbit over the planet Pluto,
and then off to Charon for dinner under the stars.

On a whim, while thinking of Pluto,
I ran into the "dwarf  planet" Eris on the net again.

Pluto's "twin".
Eris has a moon called ... Dysnomia -- the Demon Damned Goddess of Lawlessness 

from a link that I lost ...

Slappy the Dummy speaks:
Quote:"Eris is the Greek goddess of discord and strife," 
astronomer Mike Brown Whip
 a member of the discovery team, said via NASA. 

"She stirs up jealousy and envy to cause fighting and anger among men. 

{Mikey Brown is somewhat infatuated with the Dysnomia dynamic, 
thus the inevitable demotion of Pluto,
and the following long years of controversy and debate}

At the wedding of Peleus and Thetis, 
all the gods were invited with the exception of Eris, 
and, enraged at her exclusion, 
she spitefully caused a quarrel among the goddesses that led to the Trojan War.”

Eris' discovery was a big reason Slap2 astronomers Pimp demoted Pluto Scream
to dwarf planet status,
in 2006.

Quote:Eris was discovered on Oct. 21, 2003 by M.E. Brown Whip

Mikey is a ... dismal Dysnomniac space scientist.

Superman comics had Brainiac,
NASA and ESA have cartoon clowns -- Mikey - aka - Dysnomniac.

Quote:Eris takes 557 Earth years to make one trip around the sun

quality images of Eris are few and far between
here is a larger one

I tried to improve it.

[Image: YCdi2N3.jpg]

"Pluto's twin"


Quote:Dysnomia has a nearly circular orbit lasting about 16 days,
and Eris,
has a 25.9 hour day  Hi

goddess Dysnomia artist impression

Mikey Brown Whip
was wrong about Eris,
and he is dead wrong about Pluto,
and all his bullshit is going to be discarded into the trash can of space science history.

'Super Earth' really may lie at the edge of the Solar System: Astronomers spot new mystery object 2.5 times further from the sun than Pluto which suggests Planet X IS orbiting our star
  • Object is one of the most distant bodies ever identified within the sun's range
  • Its unusual orbit supports the theory that a mysterious 'Planet X' exists
  • The presence of such a planet would pull distant objects into strange orbits
By Harry Pettit For Mailonline
Published: 10:00 EDT, 2 October 2018 | Updated: 12:26 EDT, 2 October 2018
[url=][/url] LilD
A mysterious tenth planet really may lie at the edge of the solar system, according to new research.
Astronomers have discovered an object two and a half times further from the Sun than Pluto that adds to evidence of the existence of 'Planet X'.
It is one of the most distant bodies ever identified within the sun's gravitational range.
And its unusual orbit supports the theory there is a huge, rocky world ten times bigger than Earth on the outskirts of our star system.
Scroll down for video 
[Image: 4698868-6231209-A_mysterious_tenth_plane...456522.jpg]+3

A mysterious tenth planet really may lie at the edge of the solar system, according to new research. Astronomers have discovered an object two and a half times further from the Sun than Pluto that adds to evidence of the existence of 'Planet X' (artist's impression)

Astronomers believe that the orbits of a number of bodies in the distant reaches of the solar system have been disrupted by the pull of an as yet unidentified planet.
First proposed by a group at CalTech in the US, this alien world was theorised to explain the distorted paths seen in distant icy bodies.
In order to fit in with the data they have, this alien world - popularly called Planet Nine - would need to be roughly four time the size of Earth and ten times the mass.
Researchers say a body of this size and mass would explain the clustered paths of a number of icy minor planets beyond Neptune.
Its huge orbit would mean it takes between 10,000 and 20,000 years to make a single pass around the sun. 
The theoretical Planet Nine is based on the gravitational pull it exerts on these bodies, with astronomers confident it will be found in the coming years.
Those hoping for theoretical Earth-sized planets proposed by astrologers or science fiction writers - which are 'hiding behind the sun' and linked with Doomsday scenarios - may have to keep searching.
Nicknamed 'Planet Nine', the idea first emerged in 2014 when Dr Scott Sheppard and Professor Chad Trujillo sought to explain a strange cluster of six small objects in the Kuiper Belt, a field of icy and rocky objects beyond Neptune.
Their orbits all tilted in the same way, an arrangement that is nearly impossible to generate without the help of some external force.
Dr Sheppard and Prof Trujillo suggested a large planet was lurking in the shadows, warping the orbits of objects that came near.
Now the same team has found a similar body whose orbit is being similarly affected. At about 300 km (186 miles) wide, it is on the small side of being a dwarf planet.
It is about 80 astronomical units (AU) from the Sun, a measurement defined as the distance between the Earth and Sun. For context, Pluto is around 34 AU.
Called 2015 TG387, it has a very elongated orbit meaning it never comes close enough to the Solar System's giant planets, like Neptune and Jupiter, to have significant gravitational interactions with them.
Dr Sheppard, of Carnegie Institution of Science, said: 'These distant objects are like breadcrumbs leading us to Planet X.
'The more of them we can find, the better we can understand the outer Solar System and the possible planet that we think is shaping their orbits - a discovery that would redefine our knowledge of the Solar System's evolution.'
Prof Trujillo, of Northern Arizona University, ran computer simulations for different hypothetical Planet X orbits that explained how 2015 TG387 would actually be shepherded by its gravity.
It never comes closer to the Sun, a point called perihelion, than about 65 AU.
Only two other objects, known as 2012 VP113 and Sedna at 80 and 76 AU respectively, have more-distant perihelia.
Dr Sheppard said: 'These so-called Inner Oort Cloud objects like 2015 TG387, 2012 VP113, and Sedna are isolated from most of the Solar System's known mass, which makes them immensely interesting.
[Image: 4698870-6231209-image-a-14_1538485300873.jpg]+3

Pictured is a predicted orbit of the new dwarf planet, nicknamed 'the goblin' (left). It never comes closer to the Sun, a point called perihelion, than about 65 AU. Only two other objects, known as 2012 VP113 and Sedna at 80 and 76 AU respectively, have more-distant perihelia
'They can be used as probes to understand what is happening at the edge of our Solar System.'
The simulations showed why the most-distant objects in our Solar System have similar orbits that keep them from ever approaching the proposed planet too closely.
Prof Trujillo said: 'What makes this result really interesting is that Planet X seems to affect 2015 TG387 the same way as all the other extremely distant Solar System objects.
'These simulations do not prove that there's another massive planet in our Solar System, but they are further evidence that something big could be out there.'
It follows research by mathematicians at Caltech who found the existence of a massive ninth planet was the only explanation for the sculpting of the orbits of these other, smaller objects.
The object was discovered as part of the team's ongoing hunt for unknown dwarf planets and Planet X. It is the largest and deepest survey ever conducted for distant Solar System objects.
[Image: 4698866-6231209-image-a-13_1538485296778.jpg]+3

The mysterious object is one of the most distant bodies ever identified within the sun's gravitational range
They first observed 2015 TG387 in October of 2015 at the Japanese Subaru 8-metre telescope located atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii.

Follow-up observations at the Magellan telescope at Carnegie's Las Campanas Observatory in Chile and the Discovery Channel Telescope in Arizona were obtained in 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 to determine 2015 TG387's orbit.
The location in the sky where 2015 TG387 reaches perihelion is similar to 2012 VP113, Sedna, and most other known extremely distant trans-Neptunian objects, suggesting that something is pushing them into similar types of orbits.
Its discovery was announced by the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Centre in Washington DC.
A paper describing it has also been submitted to the Astronomical Journal. 
Video playing bottom right...
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
this thread is appropriate enough for this potential and odd discovery

crazy planets and even goofier moons ... they are out there

excerpts from link
Scientists may have detected the first moon orbiting a planet in a far-off solar system
Quote:“The fact is, it’s so strange and it’s the first of its kind,” 
says David Kipping, an astronomer at Columbia University. 
“That demands a higher level of rigor and skepticism 
than you would normally apply to a run-of-the-mill detection.”

Still, he and colleague Alex Teachey say in the journal Science Advances 
that they have good evidence that a Neptune-size moon is orbiting a Jupiter-like planet, 
in a solar system about 8,000 light-years away.

That planet, called Kepler-1625b, 
is one of thousands that scientists have recently detected around distant stars. 
No one, however, has ever conclusively found an alien moon.

Planets seem to be quite common, 

so it seems likely that moons should be common, too. 
All the planets in our solar system except Mercury and Venus have moons. 
“I think the real question is not whether they exist,” 
says Kipping,
“but how big do they get?” Hmm2

A Neptune sized moon ... around a Jupiter sized planet ...

They do not have the moon's distance from that planet yet.
It must quite the sight to see one of them, from the surface of the other.

Astronomers discover the giant that shaped the early days of our Milky Way
October 31, 2018, University of Groningen

[Image: 14-astronomersd.jpg]
Artistic rendering of Enceladus being devoured by a Milky Way-like galaxy. Credit: René van der Woude,

video at:  Arrow

Some 10 billion years ago, the Milky Way merged with a large galaxy. The stars from this partner, named Gaia-Enceladus, make up most of the Milky Way's halo and also shaped its thick disk, giving it its inflated form. A description of this mega-merger, discovered by an international team led by University of Groningen astronomer Amina Helmi, is now published in the scientific journal Nature.

Large galaxies like our Milky Way are the result of mergers of smaller galaxies. An outstanding question is whether a galaxy like the Milky Way is the product of many small mergers or of a few large ones. The University of Groningen's Professor of Astronomy, Amina Helmi has spent most of her career looking for 'fossils' in the Milky Way that might offer some hints as to its evolution. She uses the chemical composition, position and trajectory of stars in the halo to deduce their history, and thereby to identify the mergers that created the early Milky Way.

The recent second data release from the Gaia satellite mission last April provided Professor Helmi with data on around 1.7 billion stars. Helmi has been involved in the development of the Gaia mission for some 20 years, and was part of the data validation team on the second data release. She has now used the data to look for traces of mergers in the halo: "We expected stars from fused satellites in the halo. What we didn't expect to find was that most halo stars actually have a shared origin in one very large merger."

video at:  Arrow

PlaySeek00:00Current time00:29Toggle MuteVolumeToggle Fullscreen

The movie shows an N-body simulation of the merger of a Milky Way-like galaxy (with its stars in blue) and a smaller disky galaxy resembling the Small Magellanic Cloud in mass (with it stars in red). At the beginning, the two galaxies are clearly …moreThick disk

The chemical signature of many halo stars was clearly different from the 'native' Milky Way stars. "And they are a fairly homogenous group, which indicates they share a common origin." By plotting both trajectory and chemical signature, the 'invaders' stood out clearly. Helmi says, "The youngest stars from Gaia-Enceladus are actually younger than the native Milky Way stars in what is now the thick disk region. This means that the progenitor of this thick disk was already present when the fusion happened, and Gaia-Enceladus, because of its large size, shook it and puffed it up."

In a previous paper, Helmi had already described a huge 'blob' of stars sharing a common origin. Now, she shows that stars from this blob in the halo are the debris from the merging of the Milky Way with a galaxy which was slightly more massive than the Small Magellanic Cloud, some 10 billion years ago. The galaxy is called Gaia-Enceladus, after the Giant Enceladus who in Greek mythology was born of Gaia (the Earth goddess) and Uranus (the Sky god).

The data on kinematics, chemistry, age and spatial distribution from the native Milky Way stars and the remnants of Gaia-Enceladus reminded Helmi of simulations performed by a former Ph.D. student, some 10 years ago. His simulations of the merging of a large disc-shaped galaxy with the young Milky Way produced a distribution of stars from both objects, which is totally in line with the Gaia data. "It was amazing to look at the new Gaia data and realize that I had seen it before," says the astronomer.

[Image: 1x1.gif] Explore further: New GAIA data reveals mergers in Milky Way

More information: Amina Helmi et al, The merger that led to the formation of the Milky Way's inner stellar halo and thick disk, Nature (2018). DOI: 10.1038/s41586-018-0625-x

[1] Helmer H. Koppelman, Amina Helmi, Jovan Veljanoski: One large blob and many streams frosting the nearby stellar halo in Gaia DR2. APJ Letters, 12 June 2018, DOI: 10.3847/2041/aac882 

Journal reference: Nature [Image: img-dot.gif] [Image: img-dot.gif]
Provided by: University of Groningen

Read more at:

The merger that led to the formation of the Milky Way’s inner stellar halo and thick disk
Naturevolume 563, pages85–88 (2018) Download Citation[/size]

The assembly of our Galaxy can be reconstructed using the motions and chemistry of individual stars1,2. Chemo-dynamical studies of the stellar halo near the Sun have indicated the presence of multiple components3, such as streams4 and clumps5, as well as correlations between the stars’ chemical abundances and orbital parameters6–8. Recently, analyses of two large stellar surveys9,10 revealed the presence of a well populated elemental abundance sequence7,11, two distinct sequences in the colour–magnitude diagram12 and a prominent, slightly retrograde kinematic structure13,14 in the halo near the Sun, which may trace an important accretion event experienced by the Galaxy15. However, the link between these observations and their implications for Galactic history is not well understood. Here we report an analysis of the kinematics, chemistry, age and spatial distribution of stars that are mainly linked to two major Galactic components: the thick disk and the stellar halo. We demonstrate that the inner halo is dominated by debris from an object that at infall was slightly more massive than the Small Magellanic Cloud, and which we refer to as Gaia–Enceladus. The stars that originate in Gaia–Enceladus cover nearly the full sky, and their motions reveal the presence of streams and slightly retrograde and elongated trajectories. With an estimated mass ratio of four to one, the merger of the Milky Way with Gaia–Enceladus must have led to the dynamical heating of the precursor of the Galactic thick disk, thus contributing to the formation of this component approximately ten billion years ago. These findings are in line with the results of galaxy formation simulations, which predict that the inner stellar halo should be dominated by debris from only a few massive progenitors2,16.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
RE: Stuart Harris  Arrow
Outer solar system experts find Holycowsmile 'far out there' dwarf planet
December 17, 2018, Carnegie Institution for Science

[Image: discoveredth.jpg]
Artist concept of 2018 VG18, nicknamed "Farout." Credit: Roberto Molar Candanosa, Carnegie Institution for Science.
A team of astronomers has discovered the most-distant body ever observed in our Solar System. It is the first known Solar System object that has been detected at a distance that is more than 100 times farther than Earth is from the Sun.

The new object was announced on Monday, December 17, 2018, by the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center and has been given the provisional designation 2018 VG18. The discovery was made by Carnegie's Scott S. Sheppard, the University of Hawaii's David Tholen, and Northern Arizona University's Chad Trujillo.

2018 VG18, nicknamed "Farout" by the discovery team for its extremely distant location, is at about 120 astronomical units (AU), where 1 AU is defined as the distance between the Earth and the Sun. 

The second-most-distant observed Solar System object is Eris, at about 96 AU. Pluto is currently at about 34 AU, making 2018 VG18 more than three-and-a-half times more distant than the Solar System's most-famous dwarf planet.

2018 VG18 was discovered as part of the team's continuing search for extremely distant Solar System objects, including the suspected Planet X, which is sometimes also called Planet 9. In October, the same group of researchers announced the discovery of another distant Solar System object, called 2015 TG387 and nicknamed "The Goblin," because it was first seen near Halloween. The Goblin was discovered at about 80 AU and has an orbit that is consistent with it being influenced by an unseen Super-Earth-sized Planet X on the Solar System's very distant fringes.

[Image: 1-discoveredth.jpg]
Solar system distances to scale showing the newly discovered 2018 VG18, nicknamed "Farout," compared to other known solar system objects. Credit: Roberto Molar Candanosa and Scott S. Sheppard, Carnegie Institution for Science.
The existence of a ninth major planet at the fringes of the Solar System was first proposed by this same research team in 2014 when they discovered 2012 VP113, nicknamed Biden, which is currently near 84 AU.

2015 TG387 and 2012 VP113 never get close enough to the Solar System's giant planets, like Neptune and Jupiter, to have significant gravitational interactions with them. This means that these extremely distant objects can be probes of what is happening in the Solar System's outer reaches. The team doesn't know 2018 VG18's orbit very well yet, so they have not been able to determine if it shows signs of being shaped by Planet X.

"2018 VG18 is much more distant and slower moving than any other observed Solar System object, so it will take a few years to fully determine its orbit," said Sheppard. "But it was found in a similar location on the sky to the other known extreme Solar System objects, suggesting it might have the same type of orbit that most of them do. The orbital similarities shown by many of the known small, distant Solar System bodies was the catalyst for our original assertion that there is a distant, massive planet at several hundred AU shepherding these smaller objects."

"All that we currently know about 2018 VG18 is its extreme distance from the Sun, its approximate diameter, and its color," added Tholen "Because 2018 VG18 is so distant, it orbits very slowly, likely taking more than 1,000 years to take one trip around the Sun."

[Image: 2-discoveredth.jpg]
Discovery images of 2018 VG18, nicknamed "Farout," from the Subaru Telescope on Nov. 10, 2018. Farout moves between the two discovery images while the background stars and galaxies do not move over the one hour between images. Credit: Scott S. Sheppard and David Tholen.
The discovery images of 2018 VG18 were taken at the Japanese Subaru 8-meter telescope located atop Mauna Kea in Hawaii on November 10, 2018.

Once 2018 VG18 was found, it needed to be re-observed to confirm its very distant nature. (It takes multiple nights of observing to accurately determine an object's distance.) 2018 VG18 was seen for the second time in early December at the Magellan telescope at Carnegie's Las Campanas Observatory in Chile. These recovery observations were performed by the team with the addition of graduate student Will Oldroyd of Northern Arizona University. Over the next week, they monitored 2018 VG18 with the Magellan telescope to secure its path across the sky and obtain its basic physical properties such as brightness and color.

The Magellan observations confirmed that 2018 VG18 is around 120 AU, making it the first Solar System object observed beyond 100 AU. Its brightness suggests that it is about 500 km in diameter, likely making it spherical in shape and a dwarf planet. It has a pinkish hue, a color generally associated with ice-rich objects.

"This discovery is truly an international achievement in research using telescopes located in Hawaii and Chile, operated by Japan, as well as by a consortium of research institutions and universities in the United States," concluded Trujillo. "With new wide-field digital cameras on some of the world's largest telescopes, we are finally exploring our Solar System's fringes, far beyond Pluto."

The Subaru telescope is owned and operated by Japan and the valuable telescope access that the team obtained was thanks to a combination of time allocated to the University of Hawaii, as well as to the U.S. National Science Foundation (NSF) through telescope time exchanges between the US National Optical Astronomy Observatory (NOAO) and National Astronomical Observatory of Japan (NAOJ).
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...

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