Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Archaeologists Believe They Found Location Where Jesus Christ Taught
#67
Alemos says
Quote:It all seems to continually go back to the Anunnaki.

No it turns out o be a lot more amusing than that.

It all goes back to the Worship Emperor Ming and his wives Whip

They killed off most of the Archons Guitar

and later destroyed the Annunaki space ports at Ur and across Iraq Cheers

in that nuclear war on Mars and Earth. Horsepoop
 
huge image
http://images4.fanpop.com/image/photos/2...0-1766.jpg
Reply
#68
Scroll that mentions Jesus's wife is ancient, scientists confirm

Apr 10, 2014

[Image: 5-thishandouti.jpg]
This handout image provided September 19, 2012 by Karen L. King, Hollis Professor of Divinity at the Harvard Divinity School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, shows the front side of a fourth-century papyrus fragment

Quote:A ancient piece of papyrus that contains a mention of Jesus' wife is not a forgery, according to a scientific analysis of the controversial text, US researchers said Thursday.

The fragment is believed to have come from Egypt and contains writing in the Coptic language that says, "Jesus said to them, 'My wife...'" Another part reads: "She will be able to be my disciple."

Its discovery in 2012 caused a stir. Since Christian tradition has long held that Jesus was not married, it renewed long-running debates over celibacy and the role of women in the church.

:thwack: The Vatican's newspaper declared it a fake,  Whip  along with other scholars who doubted its authenticity based on its poor grammar, blurred text and uncertain origin.

Never before has a gospel referred to Jesus being married, or having women as disciples.

But a new scientific analysis of the papyrus and the ink, as well as the handwriting and grammar, show that the document is ancient.

"No evidence of modern fabrication ("forgery") was found," the Harvard Divinity School said in a statement.

The palm-sized fragment likely dates to between the sixth and ninth centuries, and could have been written as early as the second century CE (common era), said the study results published in the Harvard Theological Review.

Radiocarbon dating of the papyrus and a study of the ink using Micro-Raman spectroscopy was done by experts at Columbia University, Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

"The team concluded the papyrus' chemical composition and patterns of oxidation are consistent with old papyrus by comparing the GJW (Gospel of Jesus' Wife) fragment with a fragment of the Gospel of John," said the study.

"Current testing thus supports the conclusion that the papyrus and ink of GJW are ancient."

Anonymous origins

The origin of the papyrus is unknown. Karen King, a historian at Harvard Divinity School, received it from a collector—who asked to remain anonymous—in 2012.

King, a historian of early Christianity, said the science showing the papyrus is ancient does not prove that Jesus was married.

"The main topic of the fragment is to affirm that women who are mothers and wives can be disciples of Jesus —- a topic that was hotly debated in early Christianity as celibate virginity increasingly became highly valued," King said in a statement.

"This gospel fragment provides a reason to reconsider what we thought we knew by asking what the role claims of Jesus's marital status played historically in early Christian controversies over marriage, celibacy, and family."

The fragment measures four by eight centimeters (1.6 by 3.2 inches).

King said its late date—written centuries after Jesus's death—means the author did not know Jesus personally.

Its crude appearance and grammatical errors suggest the writer had no more than an elementary education, she added.

Leo Depuydt, a professor of Egyptology at Brown University, wrote an article, also published in the Harvard Theological Review, describing why he believes the document is fake. Bricks

"The papyrus fragment seems ripe for a Monty Python sketch," he wrote.

He noted grammatical errors and that the words "my wife" appear to be emphasized in bold letters, which are not featured in other ancient Coptic texts.

"As a student of Coptic convinced that the fragment is a modern creation, I am unable to escape the impression that there is something almost hilarious about the use of bold letters," he wrote.

King published a rebuttal to Depuydt's criticisms, saying in part that blotted ink was common and that the letters below "my wife" are even darker.


http://phys.org/news/2014-04-scroll-ment...t.html#jCp

Dance2 Dance2 Dance2










Married Jesus?
Hmm2 Hmm2 Hmm2

Canadian-Israeli documentary film-maker and writer Simcha Jacobovici, right, and religious studies professor Barrie Wilson, the authors of "The Lost Gospel" pose for photographs after giving a press conference with a copy of an ancient manuscript at the British Library in London, Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2014. A researcher who has attracted attention and criticism with revisionist Biblical theories says he has found new evidence that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and that early Christians considered her a deity. Jacobovici says an ancient manuscript in the British Library relates the story of Jesus, his wife Mary Magdalene and their children. He and Wilson outline their theory in "The Lost Gospel", published Wednesday. (AP Photo/Matt Dunham)

Quote:A researcher who has attracted attention and criticism with his revisionist Biblical theories says he has found new evidence that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and that early Christians considered her a deity.

Canadian-Israeli documentary-maker Simcha Jacobovici says an ancient manuscript in the British Library offers a glimpse at an early version of Christianity radically different from the faith practiced today.

"This shows that Mary Magdalene really got ripped off" in mainstream Christian theology, Jacobovici said Wednesday at the launch of "The Lost Gospel," a book co-authored with York University religious studies Professor Barrie Wilson.

But many religious scholars are skeptical about the latest addition to the crowded field of Biblical conspiracy theories.

[Image: 3-marriedjesus.jpg]
Canadian-Israeli documentary film-maker and writer Simcha Jacobovici, left, holds a copy of an ancient manuscript as he and Canadian religious studies professor Barrie Wilson give a press conference for their book "The Lost Gospel" at the British Library in London, Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2014.

"That's not to deny that some early Christians interpreted the story allegorically," he added. But he said there was no evidence for "the idea that it's about Jesus and his wife and their two children."

Jacobovici has a record of headline-grabbing but contested claims.

He co-wrote "The Jesus Family Tomb," which was strongly criticized by scholars and archeologists for alleging that a tomb found in a Jerusalem cave contained the remains of Jesus and possible family members.

Other researchers also have claimed to have found references in ancient texts to a married Jesus. Dan Brown used such theories as the basis for blockbuster thriller "The Da Vinci Code."

http://phys.org/news/2014-11-jesus-fuel-...s.html#jCp
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#69
Was there a buck to be made?

Was there 15 min of fame to be had 2000 years ago?

Somehow, the testimony of apostles, jailed, beaten, starved, stoned and eventually beheaded, or Crucified seems to carry the day.

I'll go with them.

Such 'Headlines' as these are superfluous.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#70
I'm going wherever the new research goes... people still suffer through all the things you ascribed to the past wich is still currently described in today's headlines.

When and if the Gospel of Mary's Missing pages and tattered holes are filled in a clearer picture of the ACTUAL past will occur.
As deo has demonstrated and likewise have I...new documents are being unearthed all the time.

(02-04-2015, 02:14 PM)deo link Wrote:Newfound 'Gospel of the Lots of Mary' Discovered in Ancient Text

A 1,500-year-old book that contains a previously unknown gospel has been deciphered. The ancient manuscript may have been used to provide guidance or encouragement to people seeking help for their problems, according to a researcher who has studied the text.

Written in Coptic, an Egyptian language, the opening reads (in translation):

"The Gospel of the lots of Mary, the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ, she to whom Gabriel the Archangel brought the good news. He who will go forward with his whole heart will obtain what he seeks. Only do not be of two minds."

Read the full article at:

http://www.livescience.com/49673-newfoun...hered.html

[Image: rwsu16.jpg] A Tale of Two Migdals. [Image: rwsu16.jpg]

[move]Mary of the Tower(migdal)[/move]





Newfound 'Gospel of the Lots of Mary' Discovered in Ancient Text

by Owen Jarus, Live Science Contributor  |  February 03, 2015 08:58am ET

[Image: opening.jpg?1422970740]
An image showing the opening of the gospel. The text is written in Coptic, an Egyptian language that makes use of the Greek alphabet. The pages of the gospel are small, measuring less than 3 inches (75 millimeters) in height.
Credit: Harvard Art Museums/Arthur M. Sackler Museum, Gift of Mrs. Beatrice Kelekian in memory of her husband, Charles Dikran Kelekian, 1984.669


Quote:A 1,500-year-old book that contains a previously unknown gospel has been deciphered. The ancient manuscript may have been used to provide guidance or encouragement to people seeking help for their problems, according to a researcher who has studied the text.

Written in Coptic, an Egyptian language, the opening reads (in translation):

"The Gospel of the lots of Mary, the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ, she to whom Gabriel the Archangel brought the good news. He who will go forward with his whole heart will obtain what he seeks. Only do not be of two minds."

Anne Marie Luijendijk, a professor of religion at Princeton University, discovered that this newfound gospel is like no other. "When I began deciphering the manuscript and encountered the word 'gospel' in the opening line, I expected to read a narrative about the life and death of Jesus as the canonical gospels present, or a collection of sayings similar to the Gospel of Thomas (a non-canonical text)," she wrote in her book "Forbidden Oracles? The Gospel of the Lots of Mary" (Mohr Siebeck, 2014).

What she found instead was a series of 37 oracles, written vaguely, and with only a few that mention Jesus.

The text would have been used for divination, Luijendijk said. A person seeking an answer to a question could have sought out the owner of this book, asked a question, and gone through a process that would randomly select one of the 37 oracles to help find a solution to the person's problem. The owner of the book could have acted as a diviner, helping to interpret the written oracles, she said.

Alternatively, the text could have been owned by someone who, when confronted with a question, simply opened an oracle at random to seek an answer.

[Image: oracle-25.jpg?1422970823]
An image of the gospel's 25th oracle. This oracle translates as "Go, make your vows. And what you promised, fulfill it immediately. Do not be of two minds, because God is merciful. It is he who will bring about your request for you and do away with the affliction in your heart."
Credit: Harvard Art Museums/Arthur M. Sackler Museum, Gift of Mrs. Beatrice Kelekian in memory of her husband, Charles Dikran Kelekian, 1984.669


The 37 oracles are all written vaguely; for instance, oracle seven says, "You know, o human, that you did your utmost again. You did not gain anything but loss, dispute, and war. But if you are patient a little, the matter will prosper through the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Another example is oracle 34, which reads, "Go forward immediately. This is a thing from God. You know that, behold, for many days you are suffering greatly. But it is of no concern to you, because you have come to the haven of victory."

Throughout the book "the text refers to hardships, suffering and violence, and occasionally one finds a threat. On the whole, however, a positive outlet prevails," Luijendijk wrote in her book.

Another interesting example, that illustrates the ancient book's positive outlook, is oracle 24, which reads, "Stop being of two minds, o human, whether this thing will happen or not. Yes, it will happen! Be brave and do not be of two minds. Because it will remain with you a long time and you will receive joy and happiness."

A 'gospel' like no other

In the ancient world, a special type of book, sometimes called a "lot book," was used to try to predict a person's future. Luijendijk says that this is the only lot book found so far that calls itself a "gospel" — a word that literally means "good news."

"The fact that this book is called that way is very significant," Luijendijk told Live Science in an interview. "To me, it also really indicated that it had something to do [with] how people would consult it and also about being [seen] as good news," she said. "Nobody who wants to know the future wants to hear bad news in a sense."

Although people today associate the word "gospel" as being a text that talks about the life of Jesus, people in ancient times may have had a different perspective.

"The fact that this is not a gospel in the traditional sense  in Late Antiquity,"gives ample reason to inquire about the reception and use of the term 'gospel' Luijendijk wrote.

Where did it come from?

The text is now owned by Harvard University's Sackler Museum. It was given to Harvard in 1984 by Beatrice Kelekian, who donated it in memory of her husband, Charles Dikran Kelekian. Charles' father, Dikran Kelekian (1868-1951), was "an influential trader of Coptic antiquaries, deemed the 'dean of antiquities' among New York art dealers," Luijendijk wrote in her book.

It is not known where the Kelekians got the gospel. Luijendijk searched the Kelekian family archive but found no information about where the text came from or when it was acquired.

It's possible that, in ancient times, the book was used by a diviner at the Shrine of Saint Colluthus in Egypt, a "Christian site of pilgrimage and healing," Luijendijk wrote. At this shrine, archaeologists have found texts with written questions, indicating that the site was used for various forms of divination.

"Among the services offered to visitors of the shrine were dream incubation, ritual bathing, and both book and ticket divination," Luijendijk wrote.

[Image: leather-covering.jpg?1422970884]
The gospel, which dates back around 1,500 years, still has its original leather covering.
Credit: Harvard Art Museums/Arthur M. Sackler Museum, Gift of Mrs. Beatrice Kelekian in memory of her husband, Charles Dikran Kelekian, 1984.669


Miniature text

One interesting feature of the book is its small size. The pages measure less than 3 inches (75 millimeters) in height and 2.7 inches (68.7 millimeters) in width. The codex is "only as large as my palm," Luijendijk wrote.

"Given the book's small size, the handwriting is surprisingly legible and quite elegant," she wrote. The book's small size made it portable and, if necessary, easy to conceal. Luijendijk notes that some early church leaders had a negative view of divination and put in place rules discouraging the practice.

Regardless of why its makers made the text so small, the book was heavily used, with ancient thumbprints still visible in the margins. "The manuscript clearly has been used a lot," Luijendijk said.

Hmm2 What will be uncovered next???  Dunno
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#71
Then.
[Image: church-collection-plate-17030388.jpg]
Quote:Was there a buck to be made?
Recall: I was a Roman Catholic Altar Boy and the buck was passed and wealth amassed at mass.
I don't know about back then...but sum one's been riding sum-one else's fame for twenty centuries all the way to the BANK!
[Image: Church%20giving.JPG?itok=XmUadsS3]
Now.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#72
Alrighty EA!
I hope every one is just as much a thrill packed, action adventure as might be expected!

"I'm going wherever the new research goes... people still suffer through all the things you ascribed to the past wich is still currently described in today's headlines.

When and if the Gospel of Mary's Missing pages and tattered holes are filled in a clearer picture of the ACTUAL past will occur.
As deo has demonstrated and likewise have I...new documents are being unearthed all the time."

Just goes to show they've been around a long time!
A penny dreadful (also called penny horrible, penny awful,[1] penny number, and penny blood[n 1]) was a type of British publication in the 19th century that usually featured lurid serial stories appearing in parts over a number of weeks, each part costing one (old) penny. The term, however, soon came to encompass a variety of publications that featured cheap sensational fiction, such as story papers and booklet "libraries". The penny dreadfuls were printed on cheap pulp paper and were aimed at young working class males.

Recently exhumed evidence has verified that Buffalo Bill was indeed able to kill six Indians at a shot, and was widely known to have bit a bear to death.
These informative scrolls bear his likeness, and thus bear witness to their authenticity beyond doubt.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#73
If the 'Author' of these ancient texts can be proved to have submitted himself to the flames at a stake in their defense (But only if given a choice), I might be persuaded to take a closer look. But barring that....eh.....NO!

You may recall the fates endured by every one of the Apostles in defense of their testimonies concerning Jesus.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#74
All Except Mary's.
I expect to hear from her as trowels uncover the vowels like consonant fill-in cement.

She's the Star Witness.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#75
(02-06-2015, 12:25 AM)EA link Wrote:All Except Mary's.
I expect to hear from her as trowels uncover the vowels like consonant fill-in cement.

She's the Star Witness.

But is she the author?

You may recall the fates endured by every one of the Apostles in defense of their testimonies concerning Jesus.
I think this is exactly the reason those Apostles suffered the fate they did. It says a lot about one's faith to die in it's defense. One does not such sacrifice for a lie.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#76
Are Matthew,Mark,Luke and John "real authors".
Or compiled editing? Hmm2

Quote:
Quote:Compare Video.
Very freaky  Damned
[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/cVyU9NqTXPw[/flash]




Compare Video.
Pay special attention or SKIP TO the [size=14pt]5:40 - 7:25 segment[/size] wich is very important to the post below.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/XTNUR_lbOLg#t=447[/flash]





Wave function gets real in quantum experiment

16:00 02 February 2015 by Michael Slezak

Quote:It underpins the whole theory of quantum mechanics, but does it exist? For nearly a century physicists have argued about whether the wave function is a real part of the world or just a mathematical tool. Now, the first experiment in years to draw a line in the quantum sand suggests we should take it seriously.

The wave function helps predict the results of quantum experiments with incredible accuracy. But it describes a world where particles have fuzzy properties – for example, existing in two places at the same time. Erwin Schrödinger argued in 1935 that treating the wave function as a real thing leads to the perplexing situation where a cat in a box can be both dead and alive, until someone opens the box and observes it.

Those who want an objective description of the world – one that doesn't depend on how you're looking at it – have two options. They can accept that the wave function is real and that the cat is both dead and alive. Or they can argue that the wave function is just a mathematical tool, which represents our lack of knowledge about the status of the poor cat, sometimes called the "epistemic interpretation". This was the interpretation favoured by Albert Einstein, who allegedly asked, "Do you really believe the moon exists only when you look at it?"

The trouble is, very few experiments have been performed that can rule versions of quantum mechanics in or out. Previous work that claimed to propose a way to test whether the wave function is real made a splash in the physics communityMovie Camera, but turned out to be based on improper assumptions, and no one ever ran the experiment.

What a state

Now, Eric Cavalcanti at the University of Sydney and Alessandro Fedrizzi at the University of Queensland, both in Australia, and their colleagues have made a measurement of the reality of the quantum wave function. Their results rule out a large class of interpretations of quantum mechanics and suggest that if there is any objective description of the world, the famous wave function is part of it: Schrödinger's cat actually is both dead and alive.

"In my opinion, this is the first experiment to place significant bounds on the viability of an epistemic interpretation of the quantum state," says Matthew Leifer at the Perimeter Institute in Waterloo, Canada.

The experiment relies on the quantum properties of something that could be in one of two states, as long as the states are not complete opposites of each other: like a photon that is polarised vertically or on a diagonal, but not horizontally. If the wave function is real, then a single experiment should not be able to determine its polarisation – it can have both until you take more measurements.

Alternatively, if the wave function is not real, then there is no fuzziness and the photon is in a single polarisation state all along. The researchers published a mathematical proof last year showing that, in this case, each measurement you make reveals some information about the polarisation.

Get real

In a complicated setup that involved pairs of photons and hundreds of very accurate measurements, the team showed that the wave function must be real: not enough information could be gained about the polarisation of the photons to imply they were in particular states before measurement.

There are a few ways to save the epistemic view, the team says, but they invite other exotic interpretations. Killing the wave function could mean leaving open the door to many interacting worlds and retrocausality – the idea that things that happen in the future can influence the past.

The results leave some wiggle room, though, because they didn't completely rule out the possibility of some underlying non-fuzzy reality.

There may still be a way to distinguish quantum states from each other that their experiment didn't capture. But Howard Wiseman from Griffith University in Brisbane, Australia, says that shouldn't weaken the results. "It's saying there's definitely some reality to the wave function," he says. "You have to admit that to some extent there's some reality to the wave function, so if you've gone that far, why don't you just go the whole way?"

Journal reference: Nature Physics, DOI: 10.1038/nphys3233
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn26...NLlSk10yow


Reefer See..The story of Jesus was just updated. Mellow
Considered as a classic quanta system. Hmm2

Schrödinger's Jesus
That wasy easy.
Now itz perfectly reasonable to believe he: is alive/dead was

And still not unreasonable that he was married to Mary. Whistle

Jesus' Schrödinger
My faith needs more.
Because he may be: is dead/alive was

And still not unreasonable that he was married to Mary. Whistle



Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#77
Scribes, of course. But they died for it all the same.
Pretty committed to believing they were actually recording what they'd seen, but did they fully understand the 'Influence' they were guided by?
I think they would have been pleased all the same
Radicals, every one!
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#78
Of course there is a third alternative.
A twist in Joseph of Arimathea's plot!

Good ole' Uncle Joe!!!

'They Knew He Was Breathing': 'Zombie Cat' Allegedly Buried Alive On Purpose

Posted:  02/03/2015 3:47 pm EST    Updated:  02/03/2015 3:59 pm EST

[Image: n-ZOMBIE-large570.jpg]
“zombie cat”

Bart, the now-famous “zombie cat” who dug himself out of his own grave in Florida last month, may have been intentionally buried alive, a Humane Society executive believes.

“I think they knew he was breathing,” Sherry Silk, executive director of the Humane Society of Tampa Bay, told The Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/03...06720.html

We will leave no stone unturned in this thread.
Even Passover Plots.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#79
(02-06-2015, 12:30 AM)Fsbirdhouse link Wrote:[quote author=EA link=topic=15657.msg176918#msg176918 date=1423193105]
All Except Mary's.
I expect to hear from her as trowels uncover the vowels like consonant fill-in cement.

She's the Star Witness.

But is she the author? Whip

You may recall the fates endured by every one of the Apostles
in defense of their testimonies concerning Jesus.
I think this is exactly the reason those Apostles suffered the fate they did.
It says a lot about one's faith to die in it's defense.
One does not such sacrifice for a lie.
[/quote]


Quote:Are Matthew,Mark,Luke and John "real authors".
Or compiled editing?


Quote:Scribes, of course. But they died for it all the same.


Who exactly were there to witness the apostles fate
and what qualifies them above other historical recorders?
Death for a religious belief?
...Scribes then, as the authors of such witnesses reports,
were later, after the fact,
writing of the fates of the apostles.
It was certainly not the apostles that wrote about their fates.
So why is Mary mentioned as required to be the author?

Scribes that wrote these apostolic records,
are no different than scribes
that wrote records at later times for other religious purposes,
... these later scribes of which, 
may have been put to death Whip as well, for performing such "radical" activity.


Reply
#80
(02-06-2015, 03:50 AM)Vianova link Wrote:[quote author=Fsbirdhouse link=topic=15657.msg176919#msg176919 date=1423193436]
[quote author=EA link=topic=15657.msg176918#msg176918 date=1423193105]
All Except Mary's.
I expect to hear from her as trowels uncover the vowels like consonant fill-in cement.

She's the Star Witness.

But is she the author? Whip





You may recall the fates endured by every one of the Apostles
in defense of their testimonies concerning Jesus.
I think this is exactly the reason those Apostles suffered the fate they did.
It says a lot about one's faith to die in it's defense.
One does not such sacrifice for a lie.
[/quote]


Quote:Are Matthew,Mark,Luke and John "real authors".
Or compiled editing?


Quote:Scribes, of course. But they died for it all the same.


Who exactly were there to witness the apostles fate
and what qualifies them above other historical recorders?
Death for a religious belief?
...Scribes then, as the authors of such witnesses reports,
were later, after the fact,
writing of the fates of the apostles.
It was certainly not the apostles that wrote about their fates.
So why is Mary mentioned as required to be the author?

Scribes that wrote these apostolic records,
are no different than scribes
that wrote records at later times for other religious purposes,
... these later scribes of which, 
may have been put to death Whip as well, for performing such "radical" activity.
[/quote]

We know of their fates by those who recorded them, I have not to date seen any that have been contested by their contemporaries. Not that some aren't, I am not yet aware of it.

As to the apostles being scribes, they were only in the sense that the actual words they were led to use describing that which they claim to be witnesses of, stand up to a test beyond mere human experience, a source beyond. Is the author the one who dictates to, or the one recording? Both may lay claim in this case.
But, the Sevens add a stamp of authority we may look for in Mary's gospel.
Lacking that Whip

Mary.
Was her's (Gospel) one that was actually considered at Nicea?
Many questions

We allow for the possibility that Mary's gospel stands up to the test of the Sevens as the canonized gospels do, that, and there is no contradiction of message between them might qualify it for at least some consideration. That litmus test still remains to be seen.
So, the words Autumn and Fall are not to be capitalized?
They are in my world!

What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done; and there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there a thing of which it is said, "See, this is new?"It has been already, in the ages before us. Ecc 1: 9-10
Reply
#81
FSB:
Quote:As to the apostles being scribes, they were only in the sense that the actual words they were led to use describing that which they claim to be witnesses of, stand up to a test beyond mere human experience, a source beyond. Is the author the one who dictates to, or the one recording? Both may lay claim in this case.
But, the Sevens add a stamp of authority we may look for in Mary's gospel.
Lacking that Whip

A council of Nicea has zero to do with the mayans...
But logic would follow that certain creeds wrote on the papyrus read/reed paper...their own version of a heavenly caper.
Sadducee don't use Pharisee scribes.
Spears get poked and others take bribes.
Line of David and one of 12 other tribes.
Depends on the Jibe of the copyists vibe.





Ancient Maya bookmakers get paged in Guatemala
Discoveries peg ritual specialists as central to bark-paper tomes and wall murals

By  Bruce Bower    10:00am, February 2, 2015

[Image: bb_Fig8_Hurst.jpg]
RITUAL LINEUP  In this reconstruction of a mural at the Maya site of Xultun, ritual specialists called taaj sit in a row at a royal ceremony. Researchers say the painting shows a high-ranking taaj (far right) who was buried next to the mural room.- Illustration by Heather Hurst (© 2014), courtesy of San Bartolo-Xultun Archaeological Project




Quote:Excavations at a more than 1,200-year-old Maya settlement in Guatemala suggest that ritual specialists made sacred books in a room where they also painted murals and astronomical tables on the walls. The new findings offer a rare glimpse of the people who created and wrote Maya books.

At least two men buried near the mural room, located in a residential sector of an ancient Maya city called Xultun, took part in making bark-paper, stucco-coated codex books, say Boston University archaeology doctoral candidate Franco Rossi and his colleagues. One man was interred in an addition to the mural room constructed when the original chamber was filled in with limestone and mud, closing it down, Rossi’s group reports January 5 in American Anthropologist.

“The mural room was sealed off and turned into this individual’s mausoleum,” Rossi says.

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/anci...-guatemala

It goes to show independant development of trained "Storytellers" in the New World.

Books were burned... Devil


But not all of them. Naughty





Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#82
The Link below is directly from the custodians of the holy sepulchre.

[Image: logo-custodia.png]
[move]http://www.holysepulchre.custodia.org/de...sp?id=4563[/move]
We have a great resource here!!!

3-D reconstructions,  to place the characters and events into a more coherent mind-map.
If these are "really the places" and not traditional locations since awarded posthumusly as world heritage sites but not factual.

Are these actual and factual?
The topography and small distances leave plenty of room for a "Passion Play" if this was a scripted event.

Amazingly this was a Quarry until Just before Jesus Birth and suggests local "Tektonic" activity wich Joseph(Jesus' OTHER Father") may have been @ work.

I raise the spectre of the Stonemasons/Tektons/Carpenters who are likely one and the same general guild.
Engineers make things happen.

Must watch!
[move]http://www.holysepulchre.custodia.org/de...sp?id=4563
[/move]
Or skip to 10:10 mark on the timeline of the video below.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/25aqkcrzSyQ[/flash]

I never really had the concept that this was a very restricted area. Hmm2
http://www.holysepulchre.custodia.org/de...sp?id=4563


Amazing how we can virtualise and strip layers of history in a computer model.
The TEKTONS would have seen nirvana with what we can accomplish these days.

Look at the Multiple Cover-ups of the site in question... Hmm2
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#83
Tektons. Hmm2



Not a carpenter: Jesus 'was the son of a middle-class architect', new book claims

By Dan Newling for MailOnline Updated: 22:43 GMT, 2 April 2010

[Image: article-1263029-00A1A6761000044C-817_233x387.jpg]
Jesus, seen here played by Jim Caviezel in 2004's The Passion of the Christ, was a 'the son of a middle class architect'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...z3R1eJnM8q
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


Quote:It's a somewhat different version of the greatest story ever told.


Rather than being born in a stable to a carpenter father, Jesus was actually the son of a successful, middle class and highly intellectual architect.


The claim comes from biblical scholar Dr Adam Bradford, who also says that between the ages of 12 and 30  -  the so-called 'missing years' of Jesus's life, when little is known about him  -  he was studying at religious schools and became the highest-ranking rabbi in Judea.


The radical revision of Christian history would suggest that, in preaching the spurning of worldly possessions for an austere life, Jesus may have been speaking from experience.


Dr Bradford has analysed the Bible's original Greek and Hebrew
scriptures to try to establish the truth about Christ's background.


He says a mistranslation of the Greek word 'tekton' to describe the profession of Joseph, Jesus's father, is one of many mistakes that have led to a fundamental misunderstanding of Christ's character.


Dr Bradford claims that while 'tekton' is usually said to mean carpenter, it more accurately means master builder or architect. As an architect, Joseph would have had a higher social status that enabled him to better educate his son.

In most English translations of the Bible furthermore, Joseph is a 'just man'. But Dr Bradford says the word 'man' is not in the original Greek text and the word translated as 'just' really means a senior religious scholar involved in the judiciary.

'If Jesus was the son of a poor itinerant carpenter with some radical ideas nobody would have been that concerned about what he said.

'But because Jesus was trained to become the most educated Jew of his time, it gave him the chance to exert extraordinary influence and let him get away with acts that normal Jews would have been imprisoned or chastised for.


'Christ enjoyed social privileges unavailable to an uneducated itinerant carpenter. Not only was he able to clear the official Temple market on two occasions without interference but he was also able to teach unhindered in the Temple courts and synagogues.

[Image: article-1263029-08F98A87000005DC-539_233x328.jpg]
Dr Adam Bradford's book The Jesus Discovery reveals the new claims

'Throughout the Bible he is addressed with formal titles of Rabbi and Doctor of the Law  -  the highest position in Jewish society  -  even by his enemies.'


Little is known about what Jesus did between 12, when he is said to have spent Passover in Jerusalem with his family, and 30, when he was baptised by John.


Dr Bradford, who is also a London GP, believes that during this time Jesus became the most senior rabbi in Judea.


He said: 'When Christ sat with the Doctors of the Law in the Temple at age 12 he astonished them with his knowledge. They would almost certainly have recruited Christ for later enrolment at their schools.


'It would be like a Premiership manager signing up a child who was incredibly gifted at football.


'Under the Jewish system, Jesus would not have re-emerged into public life until he was 30 when he had become a "didaskalos".


'This word is currently translated in the Bible as "teacher" but in fact it has a much higher status and meaning.


'Because the Jewish authorities had invested so much hope and time into Jesus it explains why they became so vehement in their hatred after he went "off message".


'He was their great hope who deviated from the Jewish faith, and so betrayed what they stood for.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...itect.html

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#84
I'm gonna screen-capture some of those 3-d images of the topology of calvary ,the tomb site and golgotha.
The Context will be invaluable as an aide.
A tracing board to diagram possibilities with 3-d and temporal capabilities!!! Dance2

"[b]Context is King."[/b] -Dr Adam Bradford  Hmm2

The place called Calvary was a disused stone quarry outside the city gates.

Quote:I never really had the concept that this was a very restricted area. Hmm2
http://www.holysepulchre.custodia.org/de...sp?id=4563

I never knew the small scale-of events when I served @ mass.

Now I know/Gnosis

If this isn't some constantinian figment of his mother's imagination we can compare this with Dr Bradford's new theory.

TEKTON.
I like that word and am updating my syntax and replacing 'carpenter' now.

Tekton works for me!

Quote:[Image: logo-custodia.png]

From quarry to garden

Quote:Calvary, as confirmed by the Gospel writers, was located outside the city in an area that was used as a burial ground.

And what did the area look like at the time of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus?

Archaeological excavations in the second half of the 20th century showed that beyond the city walls there was a vast quarry, in operation from the eighth to the first centuries BC, for extracting meleke limestone for use in constructing buildings within the city.After the quarry was abandoned the area was used for small vegetable gardens, and in the carved rocky walls of the quarry, along the hillside, a number of family tombs were hewn.

Golgotha itself, the “mount” on which the crosses were raised, would have had the appearance of a rocky knoll above and separated from the hill, hence an appropriate place for carrying out exemplary capital punishments.
When in 41-42 AD Herod Agrippa enlarged the Jerusalem city walls towards the northwest, Golgotha became part of the city, and over time the isolated area came to be an integral part of the urban center.

Today, as a result of archaeological discoveries, we are able to have a reasonably precise idea of the topography of Calvary. The 1961 restorations opened archaeological trenches in various points of the church. From these trenches it is now known with certainty that the area served as a stone quarry from the eighth to the first centuries BC.

Evidence of the quarry, of meleke limestone, is provided by the incisions in the rocks made by quarrymen that can be found throughout the whole area, from the present-day Christian Quarter Road to Souk Khan el-Zeit; such traces are also visible in the Chapel of the Finding of the Cross.

The quarry was abandoned in the second century BC and the area was then used for small gardens, while tombs were hewn in the steep rocky walls. A shafttype tomb – said to be that of Joseph of Arimathea – can still be seen today behind the Chapel of the Syrians. Its presence shows that in the first century the area was still outside of Jerusalem, inasmuch as the Jewish religion did not permit burial inside the city.

The archaeological evidence indicates that Jesus’ tomb was cut out of an isolated spur of this quarry.
The tomb had a low opening, and to enter it would have been necessary to almost get down on one’s knees.
Worship

Dunnoprototype - 'Genuflect' Hmm2 -EA

After the narrow passageway one reached a vestibule that led to the burial chamber. Here a single burial bench in the form of a shelf had been cut out of the right wall (viewed from the entry).

It is likely that Joseph of Arimathea intended to complete the family tomb by excavating two additional benches on the west and south sides of the tomb, but the events of Holy Week undoubtedly disrupted his plans.

The construction of a new city wall by Herod Agrippa (King of Judea, 41-44 AD) included this area within the new perimeter of the city. The Christians of Jerusalem celebrated at the Holy Places the memory of the great events. As a result of the disorder that preceded the First Jewish Revolt (66-70 AD), the Christians left Jerusalem for refuge
in Pella of the Decapolis.
The rebellion ended in a bloodbath. When the Second Jewish Revolt led by Simon Bar Kokhba broke out in 132 AD, the Roman Tenth Legion stationed in Palestine once again intervened, with the result being the total subjugation of Palestine and the dispersion of the Jews (Diaspora). Jerusalem again underwent a complete transformation.
http://www.holysepulchre.custodia.org/de...sp?id=4075

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/JkXZf6o-Tjk[/flash]

Makes a certain sense to me.... Hmm2
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#85
Tektons
Although Dr. Adam Bradford does not make this connection I will.
And also as Dr. James Tabor does not make this connection I will.
Dynasty

A Tekton Dynasty of Sang Raal Priests and MasterCrafts.

Hmm2 A davidic line of rabbi/priests that involved tektons Dance2

Dunno Wich leaves the tradition of Mary Magdalene with child fled to what we now consider southern france. Dunno

Current research is fascinating! Guitar

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/xGCrSFZjUd8&list=PLg4rch0J2eMJKS2rfcRYj4Gy6cUmlzEq-[/flash]

The cool thing is...the gospels don't really need to change one iota.
Just who interprets them.


Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#86
How does a modern Jew end up believing Jesus was the son of an architecht? Damned

(12-29-2014, 12:51 PM)Keith link Wrote:That is awesome as well.
James is another favorite and inspiring character. He said
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.



This actually works. lol
It seemed to work very well for James.
Somuch so that he had "Temple Priveledges" in Jerusalem.
In this video the temple site is described as 144,000 square feet

James is Mentioned @ the 6:00 mark on the video timeline below.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/XmJaXuMoUMw[/flash]

"context is king"
Tektonic but not quite Masonic.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/C84_LUEQ8Ws[/flash]

Nicodemus never said redeem us to Jesus  he called him "Rabbi" wich meant he was finally allowed to teach at 30! Mellow

Poor carpententer my ass!  Horsepoop
[Image: jesus-enters-jerusalem01.jpg]

1000 Tektons were given white garb when they built the temple.

In John 20:17 Jesus tells Mary Magdalene "Do not hold on to Me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers ( Hmm2 James et all? [i]-EA) and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to My God and your God.'[13][/i]

A Tektonic Temple... soon to be  Raized  by the Romans.
Acts 1:3 states that Jesus:

"showed himself alive after his passion by many proofs, appearing unto them by the space of forty days, and speaking the things concerning the kingdom of God"
After giving a number of instructions to the apostles Acts 1:9 describes the Ascension as follows:
"And when he had said these things, as they were looking, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight."
[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSALdlCD2gvjdfZW8o3PT...OT29O1nemw]Jerusalem. "...and a cloud received him out of their sight."

Following this two men [i]clothed in white
appear and tell the apostles that Jesus will return in the same manner as he was taken, and the apostles return to Jerusalem.[11]
[/i]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#87
Were they followers in a sense that Jesus led the way to the ascencion scene??? Hmm2
"...and a cloud received him out of their sight."

[Image: 1209043502.jpg]
Jerusalem forest.Isreal.

Quote:Gospels of Mark and Luke[edit]


The canonical gospels include two somewhat brief descriptions of the Ascension of Jesus in Luke 24:50-53 and Mark 16:19.[9][10][11]

In the Gospel of Mark 16:14, after the resurrection, Jesus "was manifested unto the eleven themselves as they sat at meat; ...". At the meal, Jesus said to them, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation." (Mark 16:15) Following this the Ascension is described in Mark 16:19 as follows:[9]
"after he had spoken unto them, was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God."

However, based on strong textual and literary evidences, biblical scholars no longer accept Mark 16:9-20 as original to the book.[12] Rather, this section appears to have been compiled based on other gospel accounts and appended at a much later time. As such, the writer of Luke-Acts is the only original author in the New Testament to have referred to the ascension of Jesus.

In Luke, Jesus leads the eleven disciples to Bethany, not far from Jerusalem. Luke 24:50-52 describes the Ascension as follows:[9][10]
And he led them out until [they were] over against Bethany: and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them. And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he parted from them, and was carried up into heaven. And they worshiped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy.
The blessing is often interpreted as a priestly act in which Jesus leaves his disciples in the care of God the Father.[10] The return to Jerusalem after the Ascension ends the Gospel of Luke where it began: Jerusalem.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ascension_of_Jesus
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#88
This just tosses out all accounts of all the saint's testimony and still leaves the possibility jesus was married.
That was easy.
(02-06-2015, 01:00 PM)Fsbirdhouse link Wrote:[quote author=Vianova link=topic=15657.msg176928#msg176928 date=1423205427]
[quote author=Fsbirdhouse link=topic=15657.msg176919#msg176919 date=1423193436]
[quote author=EA link=topic=15657.msg176918#msg176918 date=1423193105]
All Except Mary's.
I expect to hear from her as trowels uncover the vowels like consonant fill-in cement.
She's the Star Witness.

But is she the author? Whip






You may recall the fates endured by every one of the Apostles
in defense of their testimonies concerning Jesus.
I think this is exactly the reason those Apostles suffered the fate they did.
It says a lot about one's faith to die in it's defense.
One does not such sacrifice for a lie.
[/quote]


Quote:Are Matthew,Mark,Luke and John "real authors".
Or compiled editing?


Quote:Scribes, of course. But they died for it all the same.


Who exactly were there to witness the apostles fate
and what qualifies them above other historical recorders?
Death for a religious belief?
...Scribes then, as the authors of such witnesses reports,
were later, after the fact,
writing of the fates of the apostles.
It was certainly not the apostles that wrote about their fates.
So why is Mary mentioned as required to be the author?

Scribes that wrote these apostolic records,
are no different than scribes
that wrote records at later times for other religious purposes,
... these later scribes of which, 
may have been put to death Whip as well, for performing such "radical" activity.
[/quote]

We know of their fates by those who recorded them, I have not to date seen any that have been contested by their contemporaries. Not that some aren't, I am not yet aware of it.

As to the apostles being scribes, they were only in the sense that the actual words they were led to use describing that which they claim to be witnesses of, stand up to a test beyond mere human experience, a source beyond. Is the author the one who dictates to, or the one recording? Both may lay claim in this case.
But, the Sevens add a stamp of authority we may look for in Mary's gospel.
Lacking that Whip

Mary.
Was her's (Gospel) one that was actually considered at Nicea?
Many questions

We allow for the possibility that Mary's gospel stands up to the test of the Sevens as the canonized gospels do, that, and there is no contradiction of message between them might qualify it for at least some consideration. That litmus test still remains to be seen.
[/quote]



Planting false memories fairly easy, psychologists find.

She's the Star Witness.-EA


But is she the author? Whip
-FSB

Toronto Star
Sarah Barmak - Special to the Star

11 hrs ago



Subject: “I remember the two cops. There were two. I know that for sure . . . I have a feeling, like, one was white, and one maybe Hispanic . . . I remember getting in trouble. And I had to like, tell them what I did. And why I did it, and where it happened . . . ”

Interviewer: “You remember yelling?”

Subject: “I feel like she called me a slut. And I got ticked off and threw a rock at her. And the reason why I threw a rock at her was because I couldn't get close to her . . . ”

Interviewer: “So you threw a rock instead?”

Subject: “That was bad. That was bad. Bad scene . . . Oh wow, that’s crazy.”

[Image: adulterouswoman.jpg]

Quote:The person being interviewed is confessing on videotape to a serious crime — throwing a rock so hard at a girl’s head that it left her bleeding and unconscious.

But the assault in this story never happened.

[Image: let_he_who_is_without_sin_cast_the_first...7h8fev.jpg]

The interviewee was the unknowing subject of an experiment showing that innocent people can be led to falsely remember having committed crimes as severe as assault with a weapon.

The new study proves for the first time what psychologists have long suspected: that manipulative questioning tactics used by police can induce false memories — and produce false confessions.

Published in January in the journal Psychological Science by Julia Shaw of Britain’s University of Bedfordshire and Stephen Porter, a forensic psychologist who studies the role of memory in the legal system at the University of British Columbia, the study holds striking implications for the justice system.

“The human mind is very vulnerable to certain tactics in interviews,” Porter told the Star in an interview.

Shaw and Porter recruited 70 students at a Canadian university who had never committed a crime, and told them they’d be taking part in a study about how well people could remember their childhoods. They asked students’ past caregivers for details about a vivid event that had taken place in the students’ lives between ages 11 and 14, such as an accident or an emotional first day at school. Caregivers and students agreed not to communicate about the experiment while it was ongoing.

Researchers questioned the students for three sessions of about 40 minutes each. They asked them to recall two events in their past: the true event and an added false one, both of which they said the caregivers had told them about. The false event was described in as general terms as possible — simply “an assault” or “an incident where you were in contact with the police.”

If subjects said they couldn’t remember the false event, questioners reassured them they would be able to retrieve their “lost memories” if they tried hard enough. If they began to “remember,” experimenters asked for more detail. Do you recall any images? How did you feel? Visualize what it might have been like, they said, and the memory will come back to you.

By the end of the third interview, more than 70 per cent of subjects came to believe they had committed a crime just five or so years in the past. They didn’t merely agree they had done what the experimenters suggested — they generated all the details of the crime themselves, recalling vivid sensory memories and often becoming emotional and guilt-ridden.

Some subjects persisted in believing they were guilty after they had been told the “crime” had been invented. “A few people argued with the experimenter and said, ‘Well no, I know this happened,’ ” says Porter.

Think that’s scary? The psychologists did.

“We ended the study prematurely,” says Porter. Once he and Shaw had interviewed 60 of the students and realized the proportion of them generating false memories was high enough to support their hypothesis, they decided to spare the remaining 10 subjects the unnecessary upheaval.

It’s the stuff of disturbing sci-fi fantasies such as Inception and Blade Runner: planting an idea or memory in another’s mind that’s so convincing, they believe it’s their own. Except it isn’t science fiction — it’s science fact. And instead of fanciful technology, all the psychologists needed to implant a false idea was a room, three hours and some innocent-sounding questions.

A few details make this study different from a police interrogation. Subjects may have been less afraid to admit a crime to psychologists than to police. The hippocampus, the part of the brain that forms memory, also isn’t completely developed between the ages of 11 and 14. And subjects were being questioned about an act committed five years in the past — but police investigations often involve questioning about events that are decades old.

And while manipulative, these tactics pale at what police regularly do — interrogating suspects for far longer, being more confrontational and wearing them down emotionally.

Quote:The study is only the latest to show that false memories can be induced, adding to a growing consensus that memory is inherently fragile. Harvard psychologist Daniel Schacter has shown that memory is always in part a construction — a delicate process of rebuilding.

Memory... Hmm2 Tear it down and rebuild it anew. Mellow

Simply remembering something can leave it slightly changed. Even vivid recollections can get distorted because of the way we recount them to others, our mood or whether we’ve had enough sleep.

While this changeable, plastic model of memory has become standard in psychology and neuroscience, in the justice system, an older, outdated model persists.

“(It’s) the old view that memory works as a videotape,” says Porter. “The ancient Greeks used to talk about the storehouse of memory or the wax tablet of memory. That when we perceive our world around us, those perceptions are in our minds permanently, and it’s just a matter of getting them out.”

The outdated belief that memory is largely infallible supports the use of the Reid police questioning model, an often aggressive technique meant to confirm suspects’ guilt rather than uncover the facts. The American technique, which allows interviewers to lie to suspects, has become standard around the world, including in Canada.

“These manipulative tactics aren’t enhancing legal decision-making,” says Porter. “They’re making it more difficult, if not, in fact, impossible.”

A well-known U.S. exoneration involving a man convicted on the basis of a Reid technique interrogation is that of Texan Chris Ochoa. Ochoa spent 12 years in prison for a murder he did not commit; he was freed when DNA evidence proved his innocence.

Ochoa confessed to the crime after two 12-hour interrogation sessions that led him to conclude he had no hope of evading conviction.

False memories are responsible for countless false convictions and wrongful imprisonments, Porter believes. The Innocence Project in the U.S. has found that in at least 30 per cent of cases where convicts were exonerated by DNA testing, they had made false confessions. Some of those may have been the result of falsely induced memories.

Porter believes both police and the law need an overhaul in the way they treat testimony and confessions. He argues eyewitness testimony is valuable and can be largely accurate if suspects are questioned in ways that help preserve their recall.

Advocates like Brent Snook, professor of psychology at Memorial University in St. John’s, have been trying to change police departments across Canada.

He’s successfully worked with officers at the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, Peel Regional Police and other forces to stop using Reid and adopt the PEACE model, which has been in use for decades in the United Kingdom and has been adopted in Norway and New Zealand. That model demands officers collect more corroborating evidence before questioning suspects, and doesn’t allow threatening or lying. Advocates say it results in stronger cases.

“The message I try to get across to the officers is that memory is like a crime scene,” says Snook. “One of the first things you don’t want to be doing at a crime scene is contaminating it . . . You make sure no one gets in there and starts moving evidence around.”

A separate challenge is changing the court system, says Paul Pearson, a Victoria, B.C. defence lawyer. He says in his 15 years in court, he’s heard clients say they made confessions they no longer believe are true. But that has been a tough sell with judges.

“When we go to court as defence lawyers and try to argue to a judge that we should bring in psychological evidence about the frailty of human memory and false memory syndrome, we’re often met with a great deal of resistance,” he says. “Judges want to be the judges (of whether memories are true).”

[Image: super05.jpg]

There are signs that courts are slowly starting to change, however. Alberta judge Mike Dinkel denounced the Reid technique “in the strongest terms possible” in 2012 for its potential to render false confessions and wrongful imprisonment.

Dinkel made that critique while dismissing aggravated assault charges against daycare owner Christa Lynn Chapple, who had been charged after a child in her care suffered a head injury. Chapple endured an oppressive eight-hour interrogation even though she said at least 24 times she wanted to remain silent, only confessing when her “free will” was broken, said Dinkel.

In the light of Shaw and Porter’s discovery that it takes far less than that to trick someone into a false memory, advocates hope that change will come faster to the justice system.

Now what? Dunno
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/offbeat/pl...?ocid=iehp

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#89
I guess  Dunno  now,all things being equal  Hmm2

The entire history of Jesus in fairness is totally up to debate and ready to re-cast the past as new research will update.

[Image: 108499d1423193051-brian-williams-big-fat...liams2.jpg]

Like it or not my last post changed things.
This is real and happening now.

Everything is now suspect.
...and the truth shall conquer all.


FSB:
Quote:[quote author=Fsbirdhouse link=topic=15684.msg176992#msg176992 date=1423427174]
A direct hit.

[Image: pkXG9Xe.jpg]

Brought down by an RPG that was never fired.....all these years later!

When are these folks gonna learn.
Hillary did it.
Others have before he and her.

When have these unnecessary fibs ever been a benefit to the dough heads telling them?
What thing in the human mindset craves the unearned fantasy of pretend heroism?
What are they thinking?
Hero to fool on the national stage. That's what I'd want. Yep.
[Image: brian-williams-memories-jesus.jpg]
[/quote]

[move]http://keithlaney.net/SMF/index.php?topic=15684.0[/move]

FSB:
As to the apostles being scribes, they were only in the sense that the actual words they were led to use describing that which they claim to be witnesses of, stand up to a test beyond mere human experience, a source beyond. Is the author the one who dictates to, or the one recording? Both may lay claim in this case.
But, the Sevens add a stamp of authority we may look for in Mary's gospel.
Lacking that Whip


Dunno All things being equal now. Hmm2
http://keithlaney.net/SMF/index.php?topic=15684.0

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#90
Jesus the Nazarene Hmm2


Fascinating how [sub]small-scale[/sub] this story took place in!
50 houses??? that's darn near inbred. Pennywise

No wonder when Jesus started his ministry they said: "heyyyy!!! ain't this the lil' pip-squeak of Joe and Mary?" Reefer

Fascinating how modern science demonstrates that this was not a drama that played out over vast expanses of epic Metro-Goldwynn-Meyer cinemascopic panavision thx1138 dolby surround sound mega-production.
This was a tiny [sub]Hamlet[/sub] and jesus was no stranger to the local yokels.

The dwelling and older discoveries of nearby tombs in burial caves suggest that Nazareth was an out-of-the-way hamlet of around [b]50 houses on a patch of about four acres (1.6 hectares)

Jesus-era Home Found in Nazareth

Dec 12, 2009 03:00 AM ET  //  by  Diaa Hadid, Associated Press

[Image: jesus-christ-nazareth-house-676167-.jpg]
Members of Israel's Antiquities Authority work at the site of the remains of a house in Nazareth that dates back to the time of Jesus.
AP Photo


Quote:Days before Christmas, archaeologists on Monday unveiled what they said were the remains of the first dwelling in Nazareth that can be dated back to the time of Jesus -- a find that could shed new light on what the hamlet was like during the period the New Testament says Jesus lived there as a boy.

The dwelling and older discoveries of nearby tombs in burial caves suggest that [b]Nazareth was an out-of-the-way hamlet of around 50 houses on a patch of about four acres (1.6 hectares).
It was evidently populated by Jews of modest means who kept camouflaged grottos to hide from Roman invaders, said archaeologist Yardena Alexandre, excavations director at the Israel Antiquities Authority,[/b]

Based on clay and chalk shards found at the site, the dwelling appeared to house a "simple Jewish family," Alexandre added, as workers at the site carefully chipped away at mud with small pickaxes to reveal stone walls.

Nazareth holds a cherished place in Christianity. It is believed to be the town where Christian tradition says Jesus grew up and where an angel told Mary she would bear the child of God.

"This may well have been a place that Jesus and his contemporaries were familiar with," Alexandre said. A young Jesus may have played around the house with his cousins and friends, she said. "It's a logical suggestion."

The discovery so close to Christmas has pleased local Christians.

"They say if the people do not speak, the stones will speak," said a smiling Father Jack Karam of the nearby Basilica of the Annunciation, the site where Christian tradition says Mary received the angel's word.

Alexandre said workers uncovered the first signs of the dwelling in the summer, but it became clear only this month that it was a structure from the era of Jesus.

Alexandre's team found remains of a wall, a hideout, a courtyard and a water system that appeared to collect water from the roof and supply it to the home. The discovery was made when builders dug up the courtyard of a former convent to make room for a new Christian center, just yards (meters) away from the Basilica.

It is not clear how big the dwelling is -- Alexandre's team have uncovered about 900 square feet (85 square meters) of the house, but it may have been for an extended family and could be much larger, she said.

Alexandre said her team also found a camouflaged entry way into a grotto, which she believes was used by Jews at the time to hide from Roman soldiers who were battling Jewish rebels at the time for control of the area.

The grotto would have hid around six people for a few hours, she said.


However, Roman soldiers did not end up battling Nazareth's Jews because the hamlet had little strategic value at the time. The Roman army was more interested in larger towns and strategic hilltop communities, she said.

Alexandre said similar camouflaged grottos were found in other ancient Jewish communities of the lower Galilee such as the nearby biblical village of Cana, which did witness battle between Jews and Romans.

At the site, Alexandre told reporters that archaeologists also found clay and chalk vessels which were likely used by Galilean Jews of the time. The scientists concluded a Jewish family lived there because of the chalk, which was used by Jews at the time to ensure the purity of the food and water kept inside the vessels.

The shards also date back to the time of Jesus, which includes the late Hellenic, early Roman period that ranges from around 100 B.C. to 100 A.D., Alexandre said. The determination was made by comparing the findings to shards and remains found in other parts of the Galilee typical of that period, she said.

The absence of any remains of glass vessels or imported products suggested the family who lived in the dwelling were "simple," but Alexandre said the remains did not indicate whether they were traders or farmers.

The only other artifacts that archeologists have found in the Nazareth area from the time of Jesus are ancient burial caves outside the hamlet, providing a rough idea of the village's population at the time, Alexandre said.

Work is now taking place to clear newer ruins built above the dwelling, which will be preserved. The dwelling will become a part of a new international Christian center being constructed close to the site and funded by a French Roman Catholic group, said Marc Hodara of the Chemin Neuf Community overseeing construction.

Alexandre said limited space and population density in Nazareth means it is unlikely that archeologists can carry out any further excavations in the area, Bricks  leaving this dwelling to tell the story of what Jesus' boyhood home may have looked like.

The discovery at "this time, this period, is very interesting, especially as a Christian," Karam said. "For me it is a great gift."

A smaller scale of [sub]"Hamlet"[/sub] compared to [sup]"Village/Town/City"[/sup] may reinterpret the forensics. Damned
Puts it into a modern scientific grid and gives researchers better gps-like time-stamped metadata we can work with. Dance2

Sadly further excavations are very likely to not happen in near future.
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#91
Since no new digs will happen soon  Bricks in the once tiny little [sub]hamlet[/sub] of Nazareth we'll have to work with what we've got:

Hideouts eh? Hmm2

Quote:Nazareth holds a cherished place in Christianity. It is believed to be the town where Christian tradition says Jesus grew up and where an angel told Mary she would bear the child of God.

"This may well have been a place that Jesus and his contemporaries were familiar with," Alexandre said. A young Jesus may have played around the house with his cousins and friends, she said. "It's a logical suggestion."

The discovery so close to Christmas has pleased local Christians.

"They say if the people do not speak, the stones will speak," said a smiling Father Jack Karam of the nearby Basilica of the Annunciation, the site where Christian tradition says Mary received the angel's word.

Alexandre said workers uncovered the first signs of the dwelling in the summer, but it became clear only this month that it was a structure from the era of Jesus.

Alexandre's team found remains of a wall, [b]a hideout[/b], a courtyard and a water system that appeared to collect water from the roof and supply it to the home. The discovery was made when builders dug up the courtyard of a former convent to make room for a new Christian center, just yards (meters) away from the Basilica.

It is not clear how big the dwelling is -- Alexandre's team have uncovered about 900 square feet (85 square meters) of the house, but it may have been for an extended family and could be much larger, she said.

Alexandre said her team also found a camouflaged entry way into a grotto, which she believes was used by Jews at the time to hide from Roman soldiers who were battling Jewish rebels at the time for control of the area.

The grotto would have hid around six people for a few hours, she said.


However, Roman soldiers did not end up battling Nazareth's Jews
because the hamlet had little strategic value at the time. The Roman army was more interested in larger towns and strategic hilltop communities, she said.

Alexandre said similar camouflaged grottos were found in other ancient Jewish communities of the lower Galilee such as the nearby biblical village of Cana, which did witness battle between Jews and Romans.


Nevermind hiding from the Romans. Whip
[Image: user_50_0massacre_of_the_innocents_1824_...france.jpg]
What about hiding from Herod?  Uhoh
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#92
http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/offbeat/pl...?ocid=iehp
Quote:By the end of the third interview,
more than 70 per cent of subjects came to believe
they had committed a crime just five or so years in the past.
They didn’t merely agree they had done what the experimenters suggested —
they generated all the details of the crime themselves,
recalling vivid sensory memories
and often becoming emotional and guilt-ridden Uhoh


That info was outstanding.
It also implies the effect of ..  controlled group self hypnosis in witness accounts,
especially in recording dramatic to traumatic events in historical situations,
when the desired effect of the historical account is to record the event,
to the conditional parameters and belief systems
of the religious or political authority in current power.

Especially in over zealous religious atmospheres recording historical events,
that are essentially produced to become the defacto evidence.
It thus can easily become the religious truth serum to be swallowed hook line and sinker,
... the ancient text propaganda of repetitive religious belief entrainment.

Then you have to submit to the modern interpreter.
Sitchin translations ... and then translators of Sitchin translations.

Bible text translated three ways left from Tuesday.
Word letter and number code in Gematria translated by modern day prophets.

Bible codes Whip Torah Codes Whip
http://www.torahcodes.net/new/pages/top.html


The reliability of the modern or ancient interpreter / translator  Horsepoop
is in the ...  good hands ... of the true believer indeed.

All Fate Insurance --- "The God Hands People"

burn the library at Alexandria
burn the holy Aztec scrolls
burn the baby in the bath water
make it conform to a tailored soul
ashes to ashes
dust to dust
do what we say
do what you must
burn the bridges of time and space
burn the memories of the human race
make them less than visions of freedom to face
ashes to ashes
and dust to dust
a lonely empty place
with only God to trust
as the ancient texts that may be faked
about the burning man at the stake
is about all the money that they love to make
ashes to ashes
dust to dust
it's just another day
cashing in on false trust

Dunno
where all that came from ...
just another floem poem

Reply
#93
put some  Guitar to that and you might have a badddd jam

50 houses on 4 acres?

htf they do that?

On a satellite I ride. Nothing down below can hide.
Reply
#94
(02-09-2015, 11:03 AM)Keith link Wrote:put some  Guitar to that and you might have a badddd jam

50 houses on 4 acres?

htf they do that?

That is a rather: How many angels dance on the head of a pin type conundrum of scale.

And on that very note I can hear a pin drop when you have finished reading this next post below...





No Big Bang? Quantum equation predicts universe has no beginning

8 hours ago by Lisa Zyga

[Image: bigbang.jpg]
This is an artist's concept of the metric expansion of space, where space (including hypothetical non-observable portions of the universe) is represented at each time by the circular sections. Note on the left the dramatic expansion (not to scale) occurring in the inflationary epoch, and at the center the expansion acceleration. The scheme is decorated with WMAP images on the left and with the representation of stars at the appropriate level of development. Credit: NASA

Quote:(Phys.org) —The universe may have existed forever, according to a new model that applies quantum correction terms to complement Einstein's theory of general relativity. The model may also account for dark matter and dark energy, resolving multiple problems at once.

The widely accepted age of the universe, as estimated by general relativity, is 13.8 billion years. In the beginning, everything in existence is thought to have occupied a single infinitely dense point, or singularity. Only after this point began to expand in a "Big Bang" did the universe officially begin.

Although the Big Bang singularity arises directly and unavoidably from the mathematics of general relativity, some scientists see it as problematic because the math can explain only what happened immediately after—not at or before—the singularity.

"The Big Bang singularity is the most serious problem of general relativity because the laws of physics appear to break down there," Ahmed Farag Ali at Benha University and the Zewail City of Science and Technology, both in Egypt, told Phys.org.

Ali and coauthor Saurya Das at the University of Lethbridge in Alberta, Canada, have shown in a paper published in Physics Letters B that the Big Bang singularity can be resolved by their new model in which the universe has no beginning and no end.

Old ideas revisited

The physicists emphasize that their quantum correction terms are not applied ad hoc in an attempt to specifically eliminate the Big Bang singularity. Their work is based on ideas by the theoretical physicist David Bohm, who is also known for his contributions to the philosophy of physics. Starting in the 1950s, Bohm explored replacing classical geodesics (the shortest path between two points on a curved surface) with quantum trajectories.

In their paper, Ali and Das applied these Bohmian trajectories to an equation developed in the 1950s by physicist Amal Kumar Raychaudhuri at Presidency University in Kolkata, India. Raychaudhuri was also Das's teacher when he was an undergraduate student of that institution in the '90s.

Using the quantum-corrected Raychaudhuri equation, Ali and Das derived quantum-corrected Friedmann equations, which describe the expansion and evolution of universe (including the Big Bang) within the context of general relativity. Although it's not a true theory of quantum gravity, the model does contain elements from both quantum theory and general relativity. Ali and Das also expect their results to hold even if and when a full theory of quantum gravity is formulated.

No singularities nor dark stuff

In addition to not predicting a Big Bang singularity, the new model does not predict a "big crunch" singularity, either. In general relativity, one possible fate of the universe is that it starts to shrink until it collapses in on itself in a big crunch and becomes an infinitely dense point once again.

Ali and Das explain in their paper that their model avoids singularities because of a key difference between classical geodesics and Bohmian trajectories. Classical geodesics eventually cross each other, and the points at which they converge are singularities. In contrast, Bohmian trajectories never cross each other, so singularities do not appear in the equations.

In cosmological terms, the scientists explain that the quantum corrections can be thought of as a cosmological constant term (without the need for dark energy) and a radiation term. These terms keep the universe at a finite size, and therefore give it an infinite age. The terms also make predictions that agree closely with current observations of the cosmological constant and density of the universe.

New gravity particle

In physical terms, the model describes the universe as being filled with a quantum fluid. The scientists propose that this fluid might be composed of gravitons—hypothetical massless particles that mediate the force of gravity. If they exist, gravitons are thought to play a key role in a theory of quantum gravity.

In a related paper, Das and another collaborator, Rajat Bhaduri of McMaster University, Canada, have lent further credence to this model. They show that gravitons can form a Bose-Einstein condensate (named after Einstein and another Indian physicist, Satyendranath Bose) at temperatures that were present in the universe at all epochs.

Motivated by the model's potential to resolve the Big Bang singularity and account for dark matter and dark energy, the physicists plan to analyze their model more rigorously in the future. Their future work includes redoing their study while taking into account small inhomogeneous and anisotropic perturbations, but they do not expect small perturbations to significantly affect the results.

"It is satisfying to note that such straightforward corrections can potentially resolve so many issues at once," Das said.


Explore further: Did the universe originate from a hyper-dimensional black hole?

More information: Ahmed Farag Ali and Saurya Das. "Cosmology from quantum potential." Physics Letters B. Volume 741, 4 February 2015, Pages 276–279. DOI: 10.1016/j.physletb.2014.12.057. Also at: arXiv:1404.3093[gr-qc].

Saurya Das and Rajat K. Bhaduri, "Dark matter and dark energy from Bose-Einstein condensate", preprint: arXiv:1411.0753[gr-qc].
Journal reference:  Physics Letters B
http://phys.org/news/2015-02-big-quantum...e.html#jCp
If the Above theory is repeated and accepted by the mainstream.
If there is no detectable Alpha/Omega point nor any need for such a theoretical construct...
Then: Damned

The Universe Created God. Hmm2

[move]And then God created us  Dunno[/move]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#95
[sup]The Tekton Times.[/sup]

Xtra! Xtra!- If we re-read the old good news...
Smoke Maybe in ye-ole' micro-fiche we could read their column. Coffee2


The Pilgrimage: Turkey, Part Ten

July 25, 2014 by Ben Witherington

[Image: sarb-1024x576.jpg]
The Temple of Artemis at Sardis is not to be confused with the one at Ephesus. Indeed, there were several different Artemises, one more a fertility goddess, another rather like Diana the goddess of the hunt, and so on. Here is a sign to get us oriented in regard to the one in Sardis.



Quote:Here’s the shot as one approaches the site…

[Image: sarb1-1024x576.jpg]

[Image: sarb2-1024x576.jpg]

The setting of this temple is gorgeous, in a valley surrounded by mountains,

[Image: sarb3-1024x576.jpg]

Here’s a beautiful catalpa tree,

[Image: sarb4-576x1024.jpg]

A word here about the stone masons is in order. The Greek word tekton and it’s variants refers to an artisan who works in stone and wood (note to NT scholars, see Mk. 6 and parallels, where Joseph and Jesus end up being called tektons).

Here is a mason’s inscription at the bottom of a column with the Greek word(TEKTON) just mentioned……

[Image: 20140524_122143-1024x576.jpg]

[Image: sarb-11-1024x576.jpg]

It would have been stone masons who erected the honorific stele as well, and carved it. And here is a mason’s mark on a stone, which would indicate: 1) which stone goes on which one, or 2) the position of the stone.

[Image: sarb22-1024x576.jpg]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/bibleandcul...-part-ten/


"Indeed, there were several different  Artemises/Mary's,[b] one more a fertility goddess, another rather like Diana the goddess of the hunt, and so on."

There's sum thing about "Mary's"  Hmm2



In a quantum universe... Wow!


My mind is just a flurry of updated gnosis.

[Image: he-is-clothed-in-greatness-his-voice-res...=645&h=474]

Now Jesus can be alive/dead/alive and nobody needs to lose any sleep.

Worship Tektonics. like an Earthquake but only phonetically.







Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#96
Vianova:
Quote:That info was outstanding.

It was!

I am still realing from the implications.
Courts in the future will be reeling with the implications.
Woohoo Fishing  Woohoo lawyer's will be reeling with the implications.

It readjusts everything because it is today's world. Mellow

[move][Image: They-Live-Hoffman-lenses.jpg][/move]

[move][Image: 20140524_122143-1024x576.jpg][/move]
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#97
Poor carpententer my ass!
[Image: jesus-enters-jerusalem01.jpg]

Joseph Father Yôs?p?. Tekton.
Jesus Son Eesho Tekton.

These dudes were about as poor carpenters as the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon.

A.K.A. : "The Templars"

Same temple site yet different king cite.
[Image: 267px-Seal_of_Templars.jpg]
Dunno Solomon's/Herod's Dunno
[move][glow=red,2,300]The Adress never changed.[/glow] Naughty[/move]

Solomon and Herod Needed TEKTONS.

It can be argued that the Aramaic speakers who used this name had a continual connection to the Aramaic-speakers in communities founded by the apostles and other students of Jesus, thus independently preserved his historical name Isho. Those churches following the East Syrian Rite still preserve the name Isho.

[Image: 800px-Early_Syriac_alphabet_form_of_the_...us.svg.png]
Isho or Eesho, the Syriac name of Jesus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)
Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#98
Consider this if YOU were Eesho Damned





Quote:Massacre of the Innocents

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Massacre of the Innocents
is the biblical narrative of infanticide by Herod the Great, the Roman-appointed King of the Jews. According to the Gospel of Matthew,[1] Herod ordered the execution of all young male children in the vicinity of Bethlehem, so as to avoid the loss of his throne to a newborn King of the Jews whose birth had been announced to him by the Magi. In typical Matthean style, it is understood as the fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy:[2] "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, saying, 'A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more.'"[3]

[Image: user_50_0massacre_of_the_innocents_1824_...france.jpg]

Since all the canonical evidence that such an event occurred is found only in the Gospel of Matthew, New Testament scholars such as Daniel J. Harrington have said that the historicity of the event is "an open question that probably can never be definitively decided."[4] Most recent biographers of Herod deny that the event occurred.[5]

The number of infants killed is not stated; the Holy Innocents, although Jewish, have been claimed as martyrs for Christianity.[6]




Consider this if YOU were Eesho Damned

Knowing what you know.
If you knew Mary Magdalene as intimately as recent research suggests...

IF!

You left behind a legacy in her womb before your "Other" Passion played on calvary.

Who the Hell WOULDN'T go - [sub]Sub Rosa[/sub]???

Your beloved,Mary Magdalene alone and barren of child is NO THREAT TO ANYONE.

Yet if You never Knew 100% wether your seed did the deed Your possible heir would be a threat to the life of Not only Mary but anyone who aided and abetted her.

If any of the Apostles knew... that would also be the death of them,nevermind the romans.

Why???

Because you are Eesho Son of Yôseph.
One of The last in the line of David with a credible pedigree.
You are a priestly tekton and  attended temple and a celebrated "Prodigy" turned  "Didaskalos" is now synoymous with wanted man.

No-one needed to lie because no-one needed to know.

Need to gnosis basis.

Consider this if YOU were Eesho

If your blood was in the vessel of Mary's womb.
You are NOW The Father and your genes will survive the tomb.

Modern Intelligence Agencies(Romans)would describe it as a:
[move]Genetic "Sleeper Cell"[/move]
[move][Image: thumb.png][/move]

Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply
#99
"Context is King." -Dr Adam Bradford  Hmm2

(01-25-2015, 12:15 AM)EA link Wrote:No more hocus-pocus  Naughty if you were schooled to know your locus and can put the universe in focus.

Pick a card, any card: How magicians sway decision-making


Date:February 9, 2015

Source:McGill University


Summary:


A team of Canadian researchers has combined the art of magic and the science of psychology to demonstrate how certain [b]contextual factors
can sway the decisions people make, even though they may feel that they are choosing freely.[/b]





Magicians have astonished audiences for centuries by subtly, yet powerfully, influencing their decisions. But there has been little systematic study of the psychological factors that make magic tricks work.

Now, a team of Canadian researchers has combined the art of conjuring and the science of psychology to demonstrate how certain contextual factors can sway the decisions people make, even though they may feel that they are choosing freely -- a finding with potential implications even for daily decision-making.


"We began with a principle of magic that we didn't fully understand: how magicians influence audiences to choose a particular card without their awareness," explains Jay Olson, lead author of a new study published in Consciousness and Cognition. "We found that people tend to choose options that are more salient or attention-grabbing, but they don't know why they chose them," says Olson, a graduate student in psychiatry in McGill University's Raz Lab, which investigates psychological phenomena such as attention and consciousness.

The research was conducted in two stages. In the first, Olson (who is also a professional magician) approached 118 people on streets and university campuses and asked them to choose a card by glancing at one as he flipped through a deck of playing cards. The entire riffle took around half a second, but Olson used a technique to make one of the cards -- the "target card" -- more prominent than the rest. Some 98% of participants chose the target card; but nine in 10 reported feeling they had a free choice. Many concocted explanations for their decisions: one, for example, claimed she chose the target card (the 10 of Hearts) because "hearts are a common symbol and the red stood out."

In the second stage, the researchers created a simple computer-based version of the riffle by presenting a series of 26 images of cards sequentially on a screen. Researchers asked participants to silently choose a card, then enter it after each of 28 different trials. Overall, participants chose the target card on 30% of the trials. Although "reasonably high" this rate was much lower than in the first study, "possibly because many of the social and situational factors central to magic tricks were absent" from the conventional laboratory conditions in which this stage was carried out, says co-author Ronald Rensink, a professor of psychology and computer science at the University of British Columbia. In a magic performance, for instance, spectators may be influenced by the personality of the magician, expectations created by the setup, and pressure to choose a card quickly, he notes.

"Magic provides an unusual lens to examine and unravel behaviour and the processing of higher brain functions," says co-author Amir Raz, who is a former professional magician and holds the Canada Research Chair in the Cognitive Neuroscience of Attention in McGill's Faculty of Medicine. "This study joins a nascent wave of experiments that binds the magical arts to the principles of psychological and neural sciences. Such a marriage has the potential to elucidate fundamental aspects of behavioural science as well as advance the art of conjuring."

Vancouver magician Alym Amlani, an accounting instructor at Kwantlen Polytechnic University in Surrey, B.C., also contributed to the study.

Funding for the research was provided by the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/9JFYDENm64w[/flash]
Video of the card trick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JFYDENm64w

Story Source:


The above story is based on materials provided by McGill University. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

1.Jay A. Olson, Alym A. Amlani, Amir Raz, Ronald A. Rensink. Influencing choice without awareness. Consciousness and Cognition, 2015; DOI: 10.1016/j.concog.2015.01.004

Video Reference:
2. G and his Boy, Marshalling Back-up instrument and vocals.
University of A Cloud received him_out of their sight._Walk off the earth.0:00/ 4:08.

[flash=555,333]https://www.youtube.com/v/Lf2db4hD6zI[/flash]

McGill University. "Pick a card, any card: How magicians sway decision-making." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 9 February 2015. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/02/150209113003.htm>.



Along the vines of the Vineyard.
With a forked tongue the snake singsss...
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)